@Tio @Rokosun
Was the "80 years ago" reference a sarcasm I didn't get? Lol 😅

> What is a lot less subjective is that these video games are aggressively marketed by big companies who mostly want to make more profits, and that will have a strong effect on people, making them want to play video games. Same way Facebook wanna make people stay on their platform.

This is true I agree, but then why not criticize these companies instead of the people who fall victim to their tactics? 🤷 I also wanna point out that what you really meant to say was that "mainstream commercialized gaming" can be deceptive & addictive, but when you use a blanket term like "gaming" while criticizing it you're making a massive generalization of an entire hobby. You know there are open-source games on Linux that are made by people without any commercial interest in mind, and like @Stephanie R Maxwell 🏳️‍🌈 pointed out some people are using their passion for gaming to help others (which I didn't know before, so that's cool). So I don't think people who play games should be pitied.

Now you may say that 90% of the games out there are commercialized ones, so does that make it okay to generalize them and say gaming is bad? Well if you actually start doing this you'll realize that almost everything is commercialized these days (which is very unfortunate). I mean you could take it a step further and say laptops and all electronic devices are bad, since most people seem to be using them for things like playing games or consuming content. And documentaries are also getting commercialized and made for entertainment, and you can see the influence of this when they try to appeal to the masses - like most nature documentaries fall for anthropomorphism perhaps because they wanna make it more entertaining for common folks who watch it, and its concerning to see more and more documentaries being made about celebrities, murderers, or just plain conspiracy theories without any evidence. I won't be surprised if in the near future most documentaries become like drama shows, its already happening now. So does that mean watching documentaries is bad just because there are a lot of bad ones out there? No! Similarly most songs these days are highly commercialized and of bad quality, but does that mean listening to music is bad and those who do that should be pitied? No! And I've talked to some conservative people who say similar things about science and technological progress, look at how science created nuclear bombs and other deadly weapons they say. And if I'm being honest they're not completely wrong in feeling that way, a lot of countries do spend a fuck ton of money on weapons research for the military (probably more money than what other types of scientific research gets). But despite agreeing with that sentiment I still think its ridiculous to make a generalized statement and say science & technology as a whole is bad. Like everything else its mostly the commercialization of it that makes people focus on the wrong things, there are good use cases for nuclear energy but people made weapons out of it because that's where the money was.

> Also, considering the complexity and mindblowingness of our world, the one discovered through science, it is objectively pity that most humans spend their time being amazed and entertained by simplistic, many times violent entertainment.

Okay, I have a few thoughts on this. Firstly, being interested in entertainment, art, games, etc and being curious about the world we live in (and the science of it) are not mutually exclusive things. Do you think the actual scientists who go out and explore the world don't watch movies at home? Because I'd think that most of them do, and it doesn't make them any less curious about the world 😃 Secondly, I don't think we should pity people just because they're not interested in the same things we are, everyone will have their own personal hobbies and interests which is fine. Humans are a diverse bunch, so while some may be interested in science others may pursue other interests like cooking, programming, music, art, engineering, history, culture, architecture, etc. There are literally thousands of different hobbies and interests out there that are just as complex and fascinating. And lastly, its interesting that you mentioned the glorification of violence and other harmful tropes in our movies & media, this is a real problem IMO that deserves to be criticized publicly. And often times you'll find that these are not just a movie problem, but they're deeply seated ideas in our culture that leaks onto the media we create. So I recently found this youtube channel that does a pretty good job of exposing such harmful ideas in our media - youtube.com/channel/UCHiwtz2tC…
(Note: You may add this one to tromnews.com/videos/ because these video essays are really good IMO)
Taking a look at these harmful tropes in movies and publicly criticizing them like this can be much more effective than just asking people to not watch movies. Why? Because once you become aware of the fact that a certain idea is harmful and properly understand why it is so, then you'll become immune to it in a way, and not just in movies but anywhere you hear it you'll immediately notice the problems with it. And again its important to note that not all movies fall for such tropes, some actually go against it to make a positive social change. So if there's one thing you wanna take away from this post its that we shouldn't generalize too much and criticize an entire whole thing (like movies, games, science, technology, etc) instead of just the actual harmful effects & practices involved in it, because often times there are positives and negatives for everything.

Was the "80 years ago" reference a sarcasm I didn't get? Lol 😅

No I am 100 years old now haha.

This is true I agree, but then why not criticize these companies instead of the people who fall victim to their tactics?

I think I did :).

when you use a blanket term like "gaming" while criticizing it you're making a massive generalization of an entire hobby

From my knowledge most of it is like that. If I marginalized a few then that's because most of it is crap probably. If I am unaware of the situation then ok will learn ;). I was also referring at games in general regardless if they are open source or not. I simply consider that to be a waste of time.

like @Stephanie R Maxwell 🏳️‍🌈 pointed out some people are using their passion for gaming to help others

A smart society would not need such tactics. To livestream gameplays to raise funds. It is a sad and depressing situation honestly.

So does that mean watching documentaries is bad just because there are a lot of bad ones out there?

That's where the context takes care of these things. You take things too surgically and makes no sense to have this sort of "analysis" of an online rant. I post as I talk, I do it differently when I write on the TROM's page or when I write books.

Do you think the actual scientists who go out and explore the world don't watch movies at home? Because I'd think that most of them do, and it doesn't make them any less curious about the world 😃

I do not know what you are referring to here. But yeah most scientists probably are just normal people with jobs. Perhaps the ones that understand more about this world and are curious don't watch much "entertainment".

Secondly, I don't think we should pity people just because they're not interested in the same things we are, everyone will have their own personal hobbies and interests which is fine.

Consuming movies, games, tiktoks, I think has a strong correlation to being stupid overall, to put it simply. Consuming reality makes you more real.

I think you take these rants too seriously and put them under a microscope and interpret them in your own way. This is not helpful.

So: I personally think that playing video games, watching movies, spending time on these popular "social networks" makes humans stupid, zombies. Mostly that is. And there are exceptions to that.

@Tio @Rokosun @Rokosun @Stephanie R Maxwell 🏳️‍🌈

> I think I did 😀

Okay so as long as you're criticizing it in the context of companies making addictive games with deceptive marketing schemes and not trying to shame people for playing games then I agree with you.

> From my knowledge most of it is like that. If I marginalized a few then that's because most of it is crap probably. If I am unaware of the situation then ok will learn ;)

So people used to write fictional stories and invent games (like physical sports or board games) long before they started commercializing these, and I consider things like movies and video games the next evolution of this as new technology and mediums were developed. So I wouldn't say that games or movies are a result of our trade-based society as they've existed long before that, albeit in different forms. But of course as these started to become more commercialized and merged with the trade world then it started getting progressively shittier. Its very unfortunate that most movies and games released these days are just consumerist BS made to sell more things squeeze money out of us (some games recently added NFTs for example), because I don't think either of these things are inherently bad.

> I was also referring at games in general regardless if they are open source or not. I simply consider that to be a waste of time.

But how can it be a waste of time if people are having fun? I mean, one could argue that having sex is also a waste of time, lol 😄 In fact I think most hobbies people have could be described as a waste of time, but as long as its not negatively impacting their life in a significant way then these things are fine IMO.

> A smart society would not need such tactics. To livestream gameplays to raise funds. It is a sad and depressing situation honestly.

I agree that our society is very fucked up in regards to caring for others, and its unfortunate that people are having to find these weird tactics to deal with it. But still its nice to see some people try to help in whichever way they can 🤷

> That's where the context takes care of these things. You take things too surgically and makes no sense to have this sort of "analysis" of an online rant. I post as I talk, I do it differently when I write on the TROM's page or when I write books.

Okay maybe I just rambled on for too much there, lol 😅 But I wanted to talk about this issue of "massive generalization" since I see this too often in real life as well, so much so that I won't be surprised if 90% of the controversies/arguments in our world could be solved by fixing this one type of miscommunication. That example of saying "science is bad because it creates weapons like nuclear bombs" is one of them, such a stupid generalization of the word "science" IMO, but someone actually said it to me and I corrected them saying its the commercialization of science that's bad not science itself.

> I do not know what you are referring to here. But yeah most scientists probably are just normal people with jobs. Perhaps the ones that understand more about this world and are curious don't watch much "entertainment".

Yeah of course most scientists are normal people with jobs, I don't know if you could be a scientist without that. My point was that most scientists are curious about the world (at least I know ones like carl sagan and neil degrasse tyson are 😃) and they may still watch some entertainment in their free time because these things are not mutually exclusive. Of course they don't spend all their day watching movies 'cause they have other things to do (like most people), but they don't have to be anti-entertainment to have some genuine curiosity about the world.

> Consuming movies, games, tiktoks, I think has a strong correlation to being stupid overall, to put it simply. Consuming reality makes you more real.

Now I don't wanna get too much defensive about movies, games or tiktoks because at its current state right now, I can see why you'd say that and you're not entirely wrong, these things are being made and promoted by corporations whose only aim is to make you addicted to it so they can suck more money from you.

You know how some people stigmatize porn so much? It strikes me as odd that there's a lot of violence in our media these days and yet they draw the line at depictions of intimacy. So I know this is something we've criticized before on TROM, but at the same time I don't wanna get too defensive about porn either because the companies who make them are just like the ones who make these movies or worse, mainstream porn is full of misinformation and sometimes violent in nature. So this is the dilemma here, on one hand I don't think people should be shamed or stigmatized for their preference in entertainment, games, or even porn, but on the other hand I do realize that most of the space have been taken over by companies who want to create consumerist BS to make people addicted. And for things like movies, games, art, etc there can be people who are genuinely passionate about it and consider it as a creative endeavor. So its like a superposition of genuinely creative hobbies and the companies trying to profit off of it by creating consumerist BS content. This is why some people agree with you when you say things like "games are a waste of time" while others don't. In the context of a consumerist society making addictive games to profit off of people, games are a waste of time, but if you get rid of that commercial aspect of it and see it as a hobby & passion for many then its not necessarily a waste of time. And because of using generalized terms like "games" as a whole, its not clear to people in which context you meant, so they make their own interpretations.

> I think you take these rants too seriously and put them under a microscope and interpret them in your own way. This is not helpful.

Poor Tio just wanted to make a small rant about games but Rokosun pulled him into a long discussion about the nuances of art and consumerism, lol 😅
So I notice that I don't post that much on social media and mostly just reply when someone else brings up an interesting topic that I have something to say about, not sure why. But of course I understand that it can be annoying to get long replies like this for a silly rant, sorry 😅

But how can it be a waste of time if people are having fun? I mean, one could argue that having sex is also a waste of time, lol 😄 In fact I think most hobbies people have could be described as a waste of time, but as long as its not negatively impacting their life in a significant way then these things are fine IMO.

Because for me it is a waste of time. You cannot accept that apparently haha. For me games are a waste of time as I said in the post and I think too much of that makes people more retarded, same with watching movies. Sex is a pleasurable activity and is different from filling your heads for hours with nonsense stuff. Sure, those who chase sex and spend most of their time chasing new partners, chitchatting for getting into someone's pants, etc., I also consider it a waste of time.

Okay maybe I just rambled on for too much there, lol 😅 But I wanted to talk about this issue of "massive generalization" since I see this too often in real life as well, so much so that I won't be surprised if 90% of the controversies/arguments in our world could be solved by fixing this one type of miscommunication. That example of saying "science is bad because it creates weapons like nuclear bombs" is one of them, such a stupid generalization of the word "science" IMO, but someone actually said it to me and I corrected them saying its the commercialization of science that's bad not science itself.

Well you also generalized by saying "the commercialization of science that's bad"....is it all commercialization of science bad? This is too much of a focus on language without taking the context into account. When I say trade is the origin of most problems, do I say 90% of all trade, 67%? all trade? Of course language works like this and we express ourselves like that. For example I loved movies and I watched thousands. I knew what's popular and such. Plus after removing this mindless hobby from my mind I tried to find some educational movies for Videoneat and I only found 10 or so out of hundreds of thousands out there. Based on that I would say watching movies, in general as an activity that most people engage in today, is making people more stupid.

Same with video games.

Sure there are exceptions but if you talk like "90% of all movies are stupid" or "playing 3h a day video games makes you stupid" seems too much for me especially when you rant about something.

My point was that most scientists are curious about the world (at least I know ones like carl sagan and neil degrasse tyson are 😃) and they may still watch some entertainment in their free time because these things are not mutually exclusive.

Look, the reality is very complex and complicated. If you you do not feed your brain with that, but with imaginary and simplistic stories via movies, games whatever, then you are a lot less knowledgeable about the world. Maybe if Tyson watched a little less movies he would look closer at how the movie industry works, then understand how this society works, and maybe he would understand how trade pushes us all to be cunts. Then he may inform others about it. Tyson spends a lot of time talking nonsense about superheroes and went downhill on the movie-path for the past years. He used to be a vocal criticizer of religion and BS, and this society too. He obviously tuned that down. Was it because of movies? How the fuck can we know haha. But the more stupid content you watch the more stupid you are. This applies to me and everyone else.

Poor Tio just wanted to make a small rant about games but Rokosun pulled him into a long discussion about the nuances of art and consumerism, lol 😅

You can drive anyone insane if you analyze every word of their random rants. I do understand that you try to stay on a fence and be wise, but I think that "superposition" of yours is something that cannot last for long. I may have used to be the same, but after 2 decades of seeing the society going from retard to complete retard, I realized it is definitely tilted in one direction. And when I sound more aggressive and generalize in my rants it is also on purpose. Else they won't sound like rants but like boring posts. And because I understand the amazigness of the real world and how that contrasts with these stupid cultural (trade induced) "hobbies" like gaming, watching movies, social media nonsense, I feel like having a more visceral reaction about this idiocracy.

I do not know if you understand, but if you think for a bit about how we are on this round ball, in this vast universe, with trillions of stars and billions of galaxies, how atoms make cells and cells make humans, evolution and all of this picture that humans understood quite recently, and contrast that with dudes and dudes posting tiktok videos and scrolling through that all day, or become "gamers" and play hours of stupid nonsense daily, or watch those invented simplistic human stories via movies and think that's "wow", then you may feel like me: angry, shocked, reactive.

Ofc I understand people do all sort of things to relax and enjoy, they do not have to always be "educational", or informative. I do them too. Like I watch a bunch of videos that are neither informative or educational, I play cards at times, or customize my Linux desktop. Last night we went into this bar where they were playing instruments and anyone could join, and I played some drums for like an hour my fingers are swollen now and hurt haha. It was fun.

I am not that extreme to think that ALL people who EVER play any video game or watch any movie are stupid. Or do these enjoyable things. Not at all. I think that people who are "into gaming and movies" and such mostly retarded forms of entertainment, are filling up their free time and thus their heads with silly, unreal stuff. And this they become silly and unreal.

I am having a beef with this culture of video games that has exploded over the past 5 or so years. It has become a huge industry of both companies and "players". Championships, ads, promotions, whatnot. And it is similar to the movie-culture. Netflix, Spotify, TikTok, Smart TVs, phones overall, gaming, these are tools that have become the prison walls of people's minds. Pushed mostly by the trade-based practice we see globally.

When I say how crap TikTok is I generalize ofc since most of it is crap. At least for me. Now ofc you can then comment on my rant and say "well there are some good TikTok videos"...well...ok. But the vast majority of it is crap. Same I think about video games, movies, and many other such "hobbies"/activities.

@Tio @Rokosun @Stephanie R Maxwell 🏳️‍🌈

> Last night we went into this bar where they were playing instruments and anyone could join, and I played some drums for like an hour my fingers are swollen now and hurt haha. It was fun.

Man you're having way more fun than I do, lol 😂

> I am not that extreme to think that ALL people who EVER play any video game or watch any movie are stupid. Or do these enjoyable things. Not at all. I think that people who are "into gaming and movies" and such mostly retarded forms of entertainment, are filling up their free time and thus their heads with silly, unreal stuff. And this they become silly and unreal.

Yeah this is what I was trying to say, there's nothing wrong with having some fun as long as it doesn't negatively impact you in any way. This is very natural and we all do it, definitely not a waste of time. Usually I think people will know when they're doing something too much 'cause it'll impact their life, but yeah I do agree that we should keep things under control to not become addicted to any of these or take up too much of our time.

I think you could technically say that I'm "into movies" but it doesn't mean I'm trying to watch every new one that comes out, I prefer quality over quantity so I only watch a few ones that I know are good. The type of movies you watch also plays a big role, since some are better than others. For example on YouTube I always used to watch educational vidoes, so much so that most of my scientific knowledge came from that platform, but then there are people who uses the same platform to watch silly videos all day - so despite us both watching "YouTube videos" the type of content you watch makes a big difference, movies are no different. And then I'm also into analyzing and critiquing movies, the thing about this is that because movies are mostly a reflection of our culture when you criticize movies you're often criticizing our culture and society as well. You can see this clearly in that YouTube channel I mentioned above, the social commentary is really strong in that one it almost feels like you're watching a short documentary. BTW, offtopic but when I was looking through some of the old videos from that channel I found this 14 year old gem of a video -
Not a movie review but it's one of the funniest shit I've ever seen, and the video still feels relevant for today's politics, LMAO 🤣. Its also interesting to note that his videos are basically trade-free because he don't do sponsors or put ads on his videos and instead relies on donations entirely - this is part of the reason why I recommended it for TROMnews.

> I am having a beef with this culture of video games that has exploded over the past 5 or so years. It has become a huge industry of both companies and "players". Championships, ads, promotions, whatnot. And it is similar to the movie-culture. Netflix, Spotify, TikTok, Smart TVs, phones overall, gaming, these are tools that have become the prison walls of people's minds. Pushed mostly by the trade-based practice we see globally.

Yeah everything has become a consumerist BS in our trade-based society, so sad.....

> When I say how crap TikTok is I generalize ofc since most of it is crap. At least for me. Now ofc you can then comment on my rant and say "well there are some good TikTok videos"...well...ok. But the vast majority of it is crap. Same I think about video games, movies, and many other such "hobbies"/activities.

I defended filmmaking (both movies & documentaries) because its like an entire form of art requiring many different skills, people put a lot of time & effort into creating those and I do see value in it. No one really owns it so anyone can make a film, just like how you made your documentary. But other than the act itself I don't give a fuck about companies like Netflix who are in it just for the money. And AFAIK tiktok is just an app owned by a single company, an app that is made to be very addictive so they can make more money, I don't care much about these. Just to be clear, I don't think "social media" in general is bad, just the trade-based ad platforms like facebook, twitter and instagram are, fediverse is much better IMO and unless you get addicted to it I don't see any issue with it. So I wasn't trying to defend the multi-billion dollar companies that are behind these, all I wanted to say was that we shouldn't make fun of people who fall victim to their traps.

For example, if your goal is to persuade people to use Linux instead of Windows then talking shit about windows is a very bad idea, people might feel like you're making fun of them for using windows so they may get defensive and never change. The better way to persuade them is to just show them all the cool features of Linux that windows don't have and this might make them curious about Linux. I remember luke smith talking about this in a video and he explained it very well - videos.lukesmith.xyz/videos/wa…
So in our context if you want people to watch documentaries instead of movies then saying good things about documentaries are much more effective than talking bad about movies, at least IMO. Another trick is to use humor and funny jokes when criticizing something, this might also help to some extend.

And BTW, thank you for being patient with me and replying to my messages even when they were so long, you have such a calm & thoughtful mind 😇

Luke Smith

2020-07-16 09:27:21

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Luke Smith

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Usually I think people will know when they're doing something too much 'cause it'll impact their life

I wish you were right but I feel like this is not the case :P. "Impacting life" can mean a slow "dumbing" down of yourself. And that's hard to detect. I saw that happening with many people.

so despite us both watching "YouTube videos" the type of content you watch makes a big difference, movies are no different

Movies are still invented stories made by humans. It is mind-blowing to me how people are not more interested in real stuff, since the real stuff is endless and beyond fascinating. But I think I know why.....movies are advertised and we grow up with that, while reality (nature and such) is made to be seen as boring and difficult to grasp mostly I'd say because of school, but so because no one has any interest in selling reality.

For example, if your goal is to persuade people to use Linux instead of Windows then talking shit about windows is a very bad idea

I've heard this before and although it is true to some extent, it is not the full picture. Many people start to use Linux after seeing a lot of others talking shit about MacOS or Windows, or they themselves being pissed off at these operating systems. I know that's what made me switch to Linux.

And BTW, thank you for being patient with me and replying to my messages even when they were so long, you have such a calm & thoughtful mind 😇

Oh dude you do better than I do with this discussion. I am way too distracted by the work I have to do for TROM II right now so am not having too much patience. Thank you for being friendly and wise ;). It is always good to hear different opinions, especially from people who are friendly.

I get your points and this is the motto we've relied upon when doing any TROM content: be nice, be more exact, don't generalize too much, etc.. But for me personally, when I post on my own friendica profile, I want at times to just write something and move on. A rant, like I said in the post.

You know when I was in high-school I consumed a ton of movies, and I would have said the same: I only choose good ones. And I could argue about my decisions. It is not like I was wrong, it was that I did not comprehend the amazing-ness of reality. Took me many years to understand what I was learning about it. And now I see things much more differently. I am in awe about reality and I cannot have the patience to watch invented human stories, like movies, knowing how mind-blowing the reality is. I am excited to share that with others and I will become a lot more vocal, and calm and wise, once TROM II is out. I will try to put reality into a more strong light for others to be amazed like I am. It is a feeling I wish more would experience.

@Tio @Rokosun @Stephanie R Maxwell 🏳️‍🌈

> I wish you were right but I feel like this is not the case 😛. "Impacting life" can mean a slow "dumbing" down of yourself. And that's hard to detect. I saw that happening with many people.

Oh yeah some people desperately need a reality check, lol 😄 But you have to be careful when you lay it out to them, if you belittle or insult them by calling them dumb or whatever then they might take offense and get very defensive, this is the opposite of what you want. If you want to help such people who are in these situations then you should make them feel like you're actually trying to help and not attack them. So its not what you say, but how you say it that matters.

> Movies are still invented stories made by humans. It is mind-blowing to me how people are not more interested in real stuff, since the real stuff is endless and beyond fascinating.

But I am interested in real stuff! 🙂 These days I watch maybe a few movies per month at max, and that's nothing really, I have plenty of time for other things. Actually I would've probably spend more time chatting here with you than I did watching any movies, lol 😄

And you say "invented stories made by humans" as if its a bad thing, but I don't see it that way. Have you ever tried writing a story before? That shit's so hard, lol. You need to be really creative to come up with good stories. And they do have an impact on people and our society, probably more than you think. Stories can really tap into people's emotions and have a long term impact on their lives. And in some ways I feel like documentaries also have a story in them, just 'cause they're both very similar in nature. The only difference is that movies give you a lot more freedom to craft this thing exactly the way you want, and you can even use elements of fantasy to get a point across. I am yet to watch that movie you recommended me "K-pax" but I feel like they make use of fantasy elements for a similar purpose. And remember that spanish anticapitalist movie called "The platform" ? Certainly not the most "entertaining" movie I've seen but it did have an impact on me. I knew about things like poverty and wealth-gap before, but the way that movie portrayed these elements felt like its holding a mirror at our society showing how disgusting it truly is. You say movies make people less interested in reality but after watching that movie I sat there thinking about our society for hours, trying to come up with ways to solve our problems. But at the time I was missing a crucial piece of the puzzle and I only realized that after stumbling upon trade-free.org. Maybe if I haven't seen that movie and spent hours thinking about our world then I wouldn't have been so interested in reading your book, I watched that movie months before but its impact stayed with me.

At the moment I'm looking into watching the movies mentioned in this video -
Especially in these times where people are so divided about everything, movies depicting empathy & solidarity are a welcome change. Ideally this is what movies should be IMO, and its honestly very disappointing to see such movies getting very little attention compared to all the mindless consumerist movies out there.

And these days people's minds are stuck inside things like TikTok, which is way worse IMO. I'm not trying to judge and shame people, but really short videos like the ones seen on tiktok rarely ever have anything of value and I believe most people will agree with that sentiment.

> But I think I know why.....movies are advertised and we grow up with that, while reality (nature and such) is made to be seen as boring and difficult to grasp mostly I'd say because of school, but so because no one has any interest in selling reality.

Yeah its the trade-based society that really kills the curiosity of people, after being forced to go through school and to get a job and all, this will take a toll on people's mental health, the world may not be so fascinating to them anymore. And you're right that there's a lot of consumerist movies out there, the market is almost saturated with such type of movies, mostly remakes and all - a quick money grab for the rich. Actually if you think it about why do movies have to be advertised? If you make something good then people will watch it and recommend others, advertising only makes sense if you're more interested in selling the movie than creating it - which is of course a result of our trade world. Now you're making the TROM II documentary and apart from a small trailer maybe, you don't plan to advertise it in any way - that's how it should be.

> I've heard this before and although it is true to some extent, it is not the full picture. Many people start to use Linux after seeing a lot of others talking shit about MacOS or Windows, or they themselves being pissed off at these operating systems. I know that's what made me switch to Linux.

Actually I first tried out Linux because I learned that windows is not private or secure. And the guy wasn't "shit talking" windows or anything, but I was watching a video about improving my privacy & security and the guy pointed out how windows have been caught spying on their users many times. I don't know if it would've worked on me if he was simply just ranting about windows and trying to push Linux on everyone, maybe it would've because I wasn't really using windows but android most of the time (lol), but for those who do use windows everyday this may sound silly. But what Luke smith did is always 10 times better at persuading people IMO, when you actually see Linux in action and all the cool things you can do with it then you don't need to be convinced by anyone else. I've made posts here on fedi recommending people documentaries and stuff, and this is my aim, instead of hurting anyone's ago by telling them they're stupid for watching movies or anything, I can just show them how awesome documentaries are - a much more effective tactic IMO.

> Oh dude you do better than I do with this discussion. I am way too distracted by the work I have to do for TROM II right now so am not having too much patience. Thank you for being friendly and wise ;). It is always good to hear different opinions, especially from people who are friendly.

I was a bit worried that I might be annoying you at first, but I'm glad you find this discussion helpful. You know how rare it is for people to engage in such lengthy discussions about things they disagree, and while being friendly at the same time? This should be more normalized IMO. TBH if you were talking to me IRL then I'm usually very bad at explaining things, but when writing posts like this I can take my time with it and be more clear.

> I get your points and this is the motto we've relied upon when doing any TROM content: be nice, be more exact, don't generalize too much, etc.. But for me personally, when I post on my own friendica profile, I want at times to just write something and move on. A rant, like I said in the post.

This might be a problem with me and I apologize for that. I feel like maybe I'm not really a social-media person, I've never really been on any other platforms expect fedi so I'm not super familiar with it. The main "social media" I used before was YouTube where I just watched a lot of videos. But the difference is that on social media people can be more "raw" and they tend to write more half-cooked posts, compare that to YouTube where most videos are so well written and edited professionally - the equivalent of that would be reading a book or professional blog. Plus I feel like I have this tendency to be a "perfectionist" which should be curbed down for my own good, remember the time when I didn't want to get TROMjaro out of beta because of my perfectionism? Lol 😂

> You know when I was in high-school I consumed a ton of movies, and I would have said the same: I only choose good ones. And I could argue about my decisions. It is not like I was wrong, it was that I did not comprehend the amazing-ness of reality.

I feel like maybe you were more into movies at the time than me so it may feel like a more profound difference for you when you left that hobby. I might have an interest in movies but I also don't spend too much time on it (and definitely don't have a blog dedicated to reviewing them!), so I see it like a fun activity to do, kinda like how you went to the bar and played drums.

> Took me many years to understand what I was learning about it. And now I see things much more differently. I am in awe about reality and I cannot have the patience to watch invented human stories, like movies, knowing how mind-blowing the reality is. I am excited to share that with others and I will become a lot more vocal, and calm and wise, once TROM II is out. I will try to put reality into a more strong light for others to be amazed like I am. It is a feeling I wish more would experience.

You know for someone like you who's well aware of the deep issues prevalent on our society, I thought you'd be frustrated and depressed by this. But instead you have this genuine child-like curiosity and joy about the world that really surprised me, like you're not ignoring the reality of the world and are trying to fight back against these issues in your own way, but you still have such a positive attitude towards life while doing it. I feel like seeing you like this has helped me fight back against my own depression in a way, that even though the world sucks in many ways you can still find things that can make it worth living. Anyway, maybe in the future I'll become more like you and lose my interest in movies, or maybe not and that's fine too, but I'm definitely inspired by this attitude of yours.

If you want to help such people who are in these situations then you should make them feel like you're actually trying to help and not attack them. So

When I rant the last thing I think about is that. That's why it is called a rant, it is to help me actually, let my frustration out. Otherwise ofc I agree and I've been having this attitude with the TROM project overall.

You say movies make people less interested in reality

If you continue to feed your brain with more reality you may understand what I mean. The fact that people need some fantasy stories to understand some things about the real world, is a handicap created by the movie-culture, or before the book-culture. And overall pushed by trade which incentivizes fantasy over the very-hard-to-create non-fictional stories which require a lot of research. Writing fantasy stories does not seem harder than writing factual stories in my view.

instead of hurting anyone's ago by telling them they're stupid for watching movies or anything, I can just show them how awesome documentaries are - a much more effective tactic IMO.

You should do that. But let's talk in 10 years from now and see how well you can keep your shit together :) because I was mostly like that for a decade or more. But now from time to time I can't handle the stupidity. You are quite new to this world, and I am quite sure this is why you may not understand why such rants are good, not only for me, but for others too who feel the same. I get your theory, but the practice is imperfect. I try to also be more like the theory and in general I am, but from time to time I am ok with ranting and calling people stupid.

I appreciate you, you know that. I like your attitude and how friendly and down to earth you are. You make me more gentle when you "criticize" me in this brotherly fashion. I get your point, and it is good for you to have that attitude, and I am trying to be more calm and less rantzy. But at times it helps me to vent. If you look at the stuff I've created over the years it is either very positive (tromjaro, videoneat, tromnews, TFD) or is always geared towards positiveness since even the books I write always try to provide a positive outcome, some alternative solutions towards the end. TROM II is following suite. So I am generally nice towards everyone, but there are things that over the years made me more and more annoyed, mostly because I feel like people are distracted with silly things while we live in a mind blowing reality that it is criminally ignored.

@Tio @Rokosun @Stephanie R Maxwell 🏳️‍🌈
Sometimes people rant to influence others and sometimes they do it to just vent their frustration. And honestly I didn't know what was your intention behind the original post, but if you were just trying to just vent then I agree there's no point in me analysing or being critical about it, I just didn't know. And like I told you I was kinda new to the whole social-media thing, and its surprising to see how often people just rant here (lol), maybe its just a bias 'cause you only hear the loudest ones but still its more than I expected. TBH as far as online rants go, you're much more calm and collected then others I've seen here, its just that you're the only one I'm comfortable speaking about it 'cause you're very down to earth and open minded, plus we have a bond of course so you don't get offended by me like that. Another reason maybe I'm giving you extra scrutiny than others is probably 'cause I'm involved with TROM and all, and it still perplexes me to this day that I can't figure out why TROM is so underrated, lol 😄 Sometimes I wonder if its because people get offended by these "rants", but maybe I'm just projecting and my brain is just trying to create meaning where there isn't any. No one knows why TROM is so underrated - perhaps this will remain one of the unsolved mysteries of the universe, haha 😂 Also remember the conversation between me and Roma on our matrix room? Maybe I'm just trying to go deeper into this mystery to understand which areas of TROM people get confused about (we need more data here! 😛), and of course you can use the points we talked about there to write a new FAQ or whatever, the compass-map analogy is something I came up with to clear people's doubts but I wasn't confident enough to write it publicly so I shared on our chat instead (this might also be partly because of my perfectionism, or just simply lazy to write a big post, lol).

BTW, I wonder if these rants would be better done as a video maybe? I've seen people like Luke smith rant about a lot of stuff on camera, but I don't know if everyone can do it.

These are mostly projections at this stage. These AI's currently do very well in terms of composing text. And some experimental work with videos and images. Cool stuff, but useful not very much. Since they can be confidently wrong at times, makes them unreliable in regards to factual information. I cannot see this as the invention of the Internet. The Internet was a way for computers, thus humans, to connect with each other and express themselves. Create new shit. Tho it transformed into a massive marketplace over the years.

AI requires a lot of resources and data, to produce nothing of true original value. By that I mean sure, an AI can create some cool poems, and images, but since they are AI generated the more you create and the easier, the less their value. Would you read a book that was created with such a piece of software? I personally would never.

I can see some uses when this type of software acts like a translator, not of words, but actions. Such as maybe I know how to design websites but not to code them, so it can code a simple one for me. Even there it will become a mess the more you rely on such systems.

Use in games, idk, maybe that could be feasible. I don't see that as useful personally. This still looks to me like more hype than revolutionary. Will see....

I do see some uses like you explained. However we have to be patiently skeptical about these things. I am only 30 something years old and even I felt like I experienced 10 big "revolutionizing" tech in my life. 3D content was supposes to revolutionize the consumption of media, education, even engineering or other jobs. 3D printing will revolutionize the manufacturing as we know it, will print food, clothes, cars, you name it. Blockchain will be used in most industries, VR glasses will create an entirely different Internet, self driving cars are about to take over in 10 years (they said 10 years ago), and IBM Watson was a Jeopardy master and was about to detect cancer better than humans and revolutionize every industry...

Where are all of these now? I felt for many of these, I wrote books about these, and I feel tricked about them now. There is some value in all of them, and usefulness, but the hype created by the companies selling them, does not match the reality at all.

Time will tell with these AI's. My feeling now is that they are yet another hype, and will be only useful in certain narrow domains.

? Some of those you mentioned were nothing but a hype indeed and it was quite abvious from day one.

Well they were hyped for years and in a credible manner I'd say. Like IBM Watson and such. Regardless my point was that compared to what most media projected about these tech, the reality of how they ended up is very very different. And I suspect the same with these pieces of software that are neither artificial or intelligent, nor that we know what intelligence means.

They are very hyped-up by the companies that sell them, which is normal. For me the way to deal with this influx of information is to learn how they work to be able to appreciate them. And from my readings and courses that I took, they are less impressive than the hype around them. They are regurgitating data statistical pieces of software. Apply filters to them, set goals, rinse and repeat, and you will get some interesting results. The way chatgpt works, from my understanding, is based on what word statistically goes with what other. So it is good at creating sentences that make sense, despite them being incorrect at times.

So yea, in order for us to have any views about this "AI" is to learn how it works. Plus, it is not "a thing" it is many things, many of which we even use today, from text prediction to the normal searches that take into account your history, and so forth.