For the past few days we managed to trigger the auto-transcription for thousands of our peertube videos videos.trom.tf - All of our TROMcasts, our TROM documentary snippets, all of our videos indeed and all of the VideoNeat trailers now have an English caption. While it is not perfect, it is impressively accurate considering that it is automated. @PeerTube is a real alternative to Youtube, in all regards.
Every new video that is going to be uploaded to our Peertube will have a caption from now on.
Join us!
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Youtube is doing its best and most aggressive lately to protect their ad platform. Third party services that allow you to watch youtube videos without ads or being tracked are suffering. Invidious, Newpipe, Freetube and the like.
Now Peertube is being affected and users cannot synchronize their youtube account with their peertube one. Basically a peertube instance has an IP, and google sees that this IP is trying to grab videos from their ad platform. So they blacklist the IP. Unfortunately we can't do much.
Nothing will change until we are brave enough to move to peertube entirely or similar platforms.
Therefore our videos.trom.tf/ is currently unable to import videos from youtube. And we may not be able to fix this.
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Maybe I don't understand the issue, but if you are the owner/maker of the video, you have them yourself and don't need to get them from YT...?
Am I missing something?
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Smartube for Android TV is trying to patch everyday, but Google has 1000s of engineers full of tricks.
At some point just a rule-based filter won't be enough.
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> Youtube is doing its best and most aggressive lately to protect their ad platform
Youtube is doing its best to not run a free video hosting service because video hosting is EXPENSIVE.
> Nothing will change until we are brave enough to move to peertube entirely or similar platforms.
Every time I use peertube I'm reminded why the existing solutions exist: video hosting is hard and expensive, and if you want it to work well you need a global CDN at a minimum. And your data needs to be hosted on mulitple continents so the backhaul to the origin isn't painful.
I tried to use the Peertube hosted by @jerry the other day and I took forever for a video to even start playing. I don't have a lot of confidence this is a problem we'll solve, at least not in a way that gives us an equal experience as we get when using the centralized platforms. Maybe in 10 years.
Youtube is doing its best to not run a free video hosting service because video hosting is EXPENSIVE.
That's why they make a lot of profit and the ones running youtube are rich. They do not run a "free" video platform. It is trade-based. You pay with your attention (ads), data, or for premium with currency.
Every time I use peertube I'm reminded why the existing solutions exist: video hosting is hard and expensive, and if you want it to work well you need a global CDN at a minimum. And your data needs to be hosted on mulitple continents so the backhaul to the origin isn't painful.
We run an instance. videos.trom.tf/ 1,381 users, 2,622 videos, 972.2 GB. We pay some 20 euros a month. With p2p the bandwidth can be shared. Peertube runners allow you to use peopleΕ computers for transcoding. It is doable.
We now have 6 servers dedicated to transcoding/transcribing our Peertube videos videos.trom.tf - thanks to @Alexio who is providing 4 of them! Peertube is now a complete replacement for Youtube and I will make sure to push it a lot more in terms of use and promotion! We need to get people to use it, else without content, it won't go anywhere....
Feel free to use our instance!
#peertube #youtube #video #opensource #foss
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I am unsure. We are using the default configs for Peertube. No custom profile added to the transcoding. Usually it converts a video in as much time as the video is. So 1h video transcode in 1h. But since multiple runners convert it, that means 2 resolutions in 1h plus auto-transcription. So you think we can get better results with a custom transcoding profile?
We are dedicating around 2 CPUs per runner/server.
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I was thinking about this today after thinking "why don't I use PeerTube, I'm so against the commercial tube" and basically it's a few small/big things
1/ Slow interface
1a Interface as a whole slower (on older system at least)
1b Font seems to be trying something different -ends up displaying fuzzy or like too much sun is shining on it - perhaps it's trying a clearer/truetype style font or something newer to display text in different way than just standard text. Text should be the most solid thing even on earliest browsers - I can't read it so an attempt to have a clearer font (or whatever it is) shouldn't even be risked - keep it simple text!...
2/ Invidious filters YouTube really well - so ever since that came along and solidly filtered it's adverts, it's google code and allows download it like OK! - Still contact google video I see but it long solved the many offending parts
Overal these accumulative things and
2a YouTube has history / headstart on content and who uses it
2b even experts here don't use it or like me did but the instance went away twice / was more experimental more them
2c I hate the video system - it should be more like ftp/sft which Debian still uses - you can rename videos or files INSTANTLY - with peertube it's like editing another layer like a library record rather than file itself which I'd really recommend - connect with client, drap and drop videos done!
Peertube is manual typing like library records - sucks, don't even need that meta and if you notice no many fill it in - name already people are meticulous about.
2d I remember bugs which maybe fixed but you can try uploading a video with a filename too long and it does all the work uploading but at the end say "filename too long" etc and that is crap / I wasted so much time
2e AND the error message comes up for 2 secs so if you're away you just come back to a screen where it's back to square one and didn't see the quick-flash error and have no idea... I did many files again not even realising an error message comes up for only 2 secs (please test and fix Alexio, you have the attention to detail I know).
2e Frama etc and producers we don't really hear from, so outreach to fans would be ideal - like to ask me to add music or remix or something (anything) else it does really well but not connected to anyone. The really good / professional movements get people involved with what THE PEOPLE love to do and well that's an investment (not many want to do) - give people what to do, add wish-list, add reasons to us why to use PeerTube, not just alternative if you have nothing else better to do... (kind of that is how it is now)
Recruit us more and shout / scout us more!
SUMMARY
I guess those are main reasons like a small survey fill in and why I haven't use it apart from twice maybe! Just now for the FreeSoft day. But you can ask more if you want...
- I really love that it has torrent technology and that is "for the way" in many things but can't think how to use it with no mass
- So the this new tube taking over old tube (filtered by @invidious /
for example invidious.fdn.fr/watch?v=P7NHAβ¦
or redirect using any instance
redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=β¦
the above page is really cool showing instances, it's uptime strength and locality so I can choose not to use US servers.
How Google RUINED the Internet
Google sucks now. Here's why. Get 20% off DeleteMe US consumer plans when you go to http://joindeleteme.com/Adam and use promo code ADAM at checkout. DeleteMe International Plans: https://international.joindeleteme.Adam Conover | Invidious
Peertube is actually extremely fast am not sure why you may experience slowness. It is many times faster than youtube in terms of loading the interface (website itself). I also cannot see any issues with the font...
The way Peertube renames videos I think is all fine and probably necessary. Why would you need to upload the videos via ftp? That's old, insecure, nonreliable. Upload them via the Pertube interface and let Peertube convert the videos, create thumbnails, even transcriptions. Works wonders.
Framasoft posts regular updates. Follow them on Fedi or follow their News joinpeertube.org/news - I think they do great in terms of communication. They also have a wish-list where people can submit ideas and some already got implemented.
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Was in two minds to send this.. so I sent all of it,,, needs cutting down and generally realising from me why I write so much...
The rest is too much detail from the CW title so Tio my thanks, no need read. Can do but it will cost you a lot long-reading and I duplicate points so maybe long reply - upto you pull that eject cord now! (recommended) βοΈ
========================
So I'm happy with that reply while some reservations about all the the transcoding/transcribing you have to do for all those #Peertube videos when they could be merely copied (!!). IMAGINE... just copy! (will be different but has benefits too).
Almost like #blockchain or #bitcoin the minting or re-processing a of what is already is a video file and redoing each video to get it onto a system is pretty fucking crazy! Ok makes it uniform and super-fast but you kill the video dude! I can see some checks etc might needed but with original files but just leave as it with most browser playing it all. At some point these files probably disappears so saving these proves saves the ditching and disposal phase (I did about 30 files and my instance went for example - so glad I didn't do more - could see it all coming - ditched) and also moves etc. And energy goes with it! I think re-doing things is little gain unless for really specific projects or uses. Not the every day trashy video or re-up of the same thing.
Copy would save that and allow people while saving streaming altogether perhaps even limiting things.
For my uses and this whole text is about these streaming features that are tied to consumption of planet and so consciously reducing = less damage and less asking people connected to the damage [ Google / YouTube ] is do the damage for us. we need not copy for all vids either, and stream even less).
And so a native protocol works better for all that because it's where we came from and it worked until expectation and hardware skyrocket it up at the expense of it's fuel combustion. The ecological consideration *storing* and having *a variety of formats* too I think is the right balance and access type. This can include all the files I have about a film in original downloaded copy + text, various sub's, thumbs, notes, edits, etc - which are super interesting adn exactly like a person would have on their own hard disk and want to copy for you / give others as basic list interface + download link represented as the filename to itself to click - I mean how frigging effective is that! List of filenames as the link! link text, simple tree, directories
wow! :)
Streaming overall I'd say is ecologically unfriendly and a bloat type of invention...
...taking advantage of the invisible packets / hardware and tech constantly being upgraded I'm sure behind our backs at googleplexes or from china hardware which can all have it's specific uses in the end but the ways it's born and run, and then en-masse given to lesser-skilled people for almost common-reckless use has reduced it's effectivity for so many videos and pressed the gas more unnecessarily on the Earth. Samples and previews for the way or streaming 5mins to check parts of it only.
?? Computers non-stop is also a bit sick (imagine having it on a home, ok you do but hopefully that's because you are serving others, else does everyone not switch off at night???). Like that in itself is a bit excess / inconsiderate / reckless to have it on always.
Meanwhile storage is still doable and more careful for downloading / put limits on users storage also or encouraging rewatching things. My friends and I'm sure others just stream the same audio tracks over and over and really is such a waste. Video's as music and more is probably the same.
So I think reverting back is inevitable as constantly 'upgrades' is already crazy sterioded how much traffic moves for arguably entertainment when we could adjust that to education or better uses... so to undo this somewhat by taking stream away or limiting it undoes the damage created by the fast-food American #BigTech that has basically done it for us as an install and allowed existence of streaming to do as fast food - so this is the conscious choice to eat less or eat differently, which is what many people look for as #climatechange or whatever and "being the change" - basically means de-installing / downgrades / taking off features as direct account for what demands and eats more.
You can't drive a Lamborghini and ignore the consumption (unless you ignore consumption and out-source your processing to America - which in turn render water useless and warm etc etc ranty rant but true) which is why "copy" would save a hell of a lot processing (back to the first point and CW title). You are effectively queuing & paying constantly as a whole somewhat-extra process! And some part of me thinks you are proud of that like it's good work!
==============================================
THE ECOLOGICAL IMPACT IS MASSIVE AND IMPORTANT
==============================================
I also noticed Tio you didn't respond to this ecological side and "people work" that I mentioned. I think you not mentioning IS the answer and saw it before in your work. No big judgement :) <---is a big lie ! We all stick to what we like, fast cars and American Pie online. So maybe we can leave it there and I'm not not asking you to respond because anyway you quite Aced everything else and did well so I'm happy for that!
So for now it feels like I wrote too much and should not go too deep or off topic (as I think I probably have). So it's not your fault if ecology and is not your thing. You covered you reply quite well which is a skill and it was in the video context to start with which maybe now I added in the less-streaming / storage context.
I tend to write longer which might not be your thing also... so consider I'm practising for myself or others that want to chip in also on points.
=======================
QUESTION AND EXAMPLES
=======================
Is it's possible to upload in batches (is it possible in PeerTube?) let me know - that one by one (lol!) is s killer.
The rest is just FYI / Optional reading:
Two interfaces I'm thinking of that works for me as contrast is below. The demand on streaming everything is still too rich/costly for us all, so downloading from storage like Debian do is still my way, asking the user to choose better / more wisely or read, check the thumbs or sample file first.
So 2 variations of storage n' stream = archive.org and debian's ftp:
1/ Video + listings interface:
archive.org
2/ Purely file list interface:
ftp.debian.org
Rather than demanding "always on" magic for everything to work all the time (which I think cost the planet tons) I think I'll settle for storage + less layers + less "adding" filenames and pictures etc lol. Unless upload has changed majorly since 2years ago it's not very useful as basic form to load files (maybe it has drag and drop finally?!).
Maybe I'll ask the others for opinion on that so you can continue your work Tio.
Like I said too deep, specific and long, so I say thank you for now.
Thanks again.
#AI side note: Not sure I want the AI tool to scan my personal videos to make subtitles. Is that optional / automatic? How / who does it use for that? Do you care? Tell the truth and say no I don't care :)
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Was in two minds to send this.. so I sent all of it,,, needs cutting down and generally realising from me why I write so much...
The CW title is the main thing Tio so my thanks, no need read more. Can do. but it will cost you a lot long-reading and I duplicate points so maybe long reply - upto you pull that eject cord now! (recommended) βοΈ
The rest is too much detail by feels there are few solid points that 'could' change the whole game of video and energy / time exchange happening.
========================
So I'm happy with that reply while some reservations about all the the transcoding/transcribing you have to do for all those #Peertube videos when they could be merely copied (!!). IMAGINE... just copy! (will be different but has benefits too).
Almost like #blockchain or #bitcoin, the minting or re-processing of what is was already video file by users and redoing each video online to get it onto a system is pretty fucking crazy! Ok the new video file makes it uniform and super-fast but you have killed the video and what energy was made into the original video is somewhat wasted being re-done!
So just leaving video files "as is" and means it will almost surely play in browser or media player the same way!
And at some point we can consider these files probably disappears (instances run out of money, move domains, remove users etc() so it proves worthy not to invest so much energy into the eventual ditching / purging of files. To make processes and energy less disposable.
I remember on PeerTube did about 30 files (1 by 1, added text carefully and everything) and my instance went - I was glad I didn't do any more there - too much investment for little gain - and a text file would have been better so I could re-use it in future for uploading again somewhere else,.
So now we can see it all coming (if we didn't know before how disposable online is) and also naturally life of users / projects going and coming like short-lived websites.
So the energy goes with it is pretty bad re-doing things for little gain unless for really specific projects or uses needing a new file + processing per file. If we had to pay personally for this we would not want to setup another system just to re-code existing mostl-disposable or video found on YouTube (as our backup let's say).
The every day trashy video or re-up of the same thing is just not worth throwing money / time into.
Copying video would save that and allow people to get file, while saving the whole streaming things altogether perhaps have a limited service.
For my uses and sentiments of energy investment means these streaming features are directly tied to consumption of the planet by reprocessing existing things on the planet! And so consciously reducing = less damage and less asking people to be connected to the damage [ less Amazon AWS and Cloudflare space all of which are getting more evil or bigger throwing moeny at it]
We need to stream even less than have copies.
============
NEXT MAIN POINT
============
And so a native protocol works better for all that because it's where we (and all servers) came from and have as base layer.
FTP worked before, until expectations and hardware skyrocketed up expectations and expense - like petrol / fuel combustion - kind of more demanding consumption / processing for the same files!
STORING VARIOUS FORMATS WITH FILMS
Storing other formats with video file I think is also the right balance. The text file you can read instantly in browser as a readme type file + see the other files I have about a film in *original downloaded copy*. I know stream has it's uses but download and play might be actually faster sometimes too! So it's like paying for convenience again.
Adding the text, various sub's, thumbs, notes, edits, etc - are super interesting and exactly like a person would have on their own hard disk already and want to copy for you / give others.
Drag and drop - get asic list interface + download link as the filename - I mean how frigging effective is that to auto-list and auto-link it all INSTANTLY after upload!
List of filenames... Simple directories... view various files in browser... wow! :)
STREAMING NO MORE - AS CONSCIOUS THING?
Streaming overall I'd say is ecologically unfriendly and a bloat type of invention...
...taking advantage of the invisible packets / hardware and BIGtech and pretending to be able to do it at invisible cost.
I'm sure behind our backs at Googleplexes and the China hardware it's constantly upgraded, water consumption increased, electricity etc. Not just small operation BUT MASSIVE.
Stream has it's specific uses (live stream for example) but in the end it's born and run on sterioded computing that can't last without burning itself out.
Given en-masse to lesser-skilled people for almost common, reckless use has reduced video steam effectivity for so many videos and pressed the gas more unnecessarily on the Earth π ... π
Samples and previews "for the way" or streaming 5mins to check parts of it only. Saves the world and encouraged better more-sane distributed practices word-wide.
NON-STOP COMPUTING IS ALSO SOMETHING
Computers non-stop is also a bit sick though this pushes it further than all of the above so far ao not saying you have to switch off your computer. But imagine that's how it was before like the tool it was and now it's kinda taken over which no tool should do in the name of balance.
Imagine having it on a home and it's on all the time... that can leave a lot of room for error while it's on, OK you probably do have it on and doing stuff 24/ but hopefully that's because you are serving others, else shouldn't everyone not switch off at night and at some point??? It's getting to the stage computers are taking over (somewhat and need to be careful of that) Computing itself has become a bit excess / inconsiderate / reckless and to have it on always allows other actors and external factors into our lives. Spending energy and time local and external as the main leaks not to mention maybe data too.
Meanwhile storage is still doable and more careful for downloading / put limits on users storage also or encouraging re-watching things. My friends and I'm sure others just stream the same audio tracks over and over and really is a waste. Video's as music also the same.
So I think "reverting back" is inevitable as constantly these features and 'upgrades' are already getting crazy sterioded of how much we can move traffic for arguably little gain or just more entertainment for the existing.
We could adjust that or redirect it towards live education or better uses (which include not using it)... so to undo this somewhat by taking stream away or limiting it, it undoes the damage created by the fast-food American π #BigTech π» that has basically done it for us as a simple paid install and allowed existence of streaming / fast food π - So this is the conscious choice to eat less (you can still eat hamburgers just not for breakfast lunch and dinner) which is what many people look for as #change or #climatechange or whatever that is almost certainly connected #water shortage etc.
"Being the change" - basically means de-installing / downgrades sometimes and taking off features as direct account for what demanded and eat all the energy while we do other things perhaps thinking it doesn't cost to store and stream as it's hard to count that.
==================
Lamborghini as energy example / parallel
==================
Basically you can't drive a Lamborghini and ignore the consumption (unless you ignore consumption and out-source your processing to America - which in turn render water useless and warm etc etc ranty rant but true)
This is why "copy" would save a hell of a lot processing (back to the first point and CW title). .
I assume you wouldn't drive a Lambo even if it was given free - why, because it doesn't hold much space, is fragile and demands a lot of care else wastes a lot of money spending on it, have to worry over it so it doesn't break etc... Similar with streaming wit it's consumption, managing it, etc/
Stream uploads are effectively queuing & paying constantly as a extra process somewhat! And some part of me thinks you are proud of that like it's good work and nice toy !
I'd say for live stuff and only like for cinema but not everyday stuff people can download and play locally.
==============================================
ECOLOGICAL TOPICS ARE MASSIVE AND IMPORTANT BUT SOME PEOPLE MIGHT NOT GET IT WHICH I MIGHT HAVE TO ACCEPT.
==============================================
I also noticed Tio you didn't respond to this ecological side of what I said and "people work" that I mentioned.
I think you *not mentioning* it IS the answer already and saw it before in your work when I mentioned how big files are for little reward. No big judgement :) <---a big lie from me this is do or die life! So we can all stick to what we like, fast cars and American Pie online. π 
β½ π’οΈ
So maybe we can leave it there and I'm not not asking you to respond because anyway you quite Aced everything else and did well so I'm happy for that!
(above paragraph part I wanted to write earlier but got pushed down a bit so imagine I said it earlier)
So for now it feels like I wrote too much and should not go too deep or off topic (as I think I have) but wrote disclaimer to help see it's for the main points perhaps marked with the ============ horizontal lines.
So it's not your fault if ecology is not your thing. You covered you reply quite well which is a skill I don't seem to have (but effort I do have) and it was in the video context to start with which maybe now I have added in the more storage context (so I changed it but think this could be right as conclusion / balance for all points).
I tend to write longer which might not be your thing... so consider I'm practising for myself or others that want to chip in also on points.
=======================
QUESTION AND EXAMPLES
=======================
Is it's possible with PeerTube to upload / queue video in batches
Let me know anyone - One by one (lol!) is a killer and no wonder nobody with serious collection of videos would avoid it!
=========================
The rest is just FYI / Optional reading:
=========================
Two interfaces I'm thinking of that works for me as contrast is below. The demand on streaming everything is still too rich/costly for us all, so downloading from storage like Debian do is still my way, asking the user to choose better / more wisely or read, check the thumbs or sample file first.
So 2 variations of storage n' stream = archive.org and debian's ftp:
1/ Video + listings interface:
archive.org
2/ Purely file list interface:
ftp.debian.org
Rather than demanding "always on" magic for everything to work all the time (which I think cost the planet tons) I think I'll settle for storage + less layers + less "adding" filenames and pictures etc lol. Unless upload has changed majorly since 2years ago it's not very useful as basic form to load files (maybe it has drag and drop finally?!).
Maybe I'll ask the others for opinion on that so you can continue your work Tio.
Like I said too deep, specific and long, so I say thank you for now.
Thanks again.
#AI side note: Not sure I want the AI tool to scan my personal videos to make subtitles. Is that optional / automatic? How / who does it use for that? Do you care? Tell the truth and say no I don't care :)
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Seems PeerTube has come further since I looked touching on my point about "original video" !
joinpeertube.org/news
(under 6.1 news "Original video file preserved")
===========
2 MAIN POINTS
===========
1/ Since 6.1 PeerTube saves original video file also (lol)...
Text from page:
" Until now, when you uploaded a video to PeerTube, it was transcoded into multiple formats and the original file was deleted.
From v6.1, this version is preserved and can be downloaded from your library, as well as being present in the export archive! "
...so ADD another file to save... but just for archive only and not stream!
It's like we have endless space for all these fucking copies!
Would you do this if it was YOUR hard disk space? Do you have more than 2 copies of each video - crazy...
===================
OVERALL / MY CONCLUSION
===================
The original video file + smaller version at the most maybe and as download *might* still be the winner rather than 5 versions of same + original version PeerTube now stores anyway ! lol
"Original video file preserved" is good but could be playable directly.
I understand stream makes smaller versions of file, faster to play sometimes, but also many copies of the same per file, is a big trade off (negative maybe overall) and displacement of space / out-sourcing of energy to stream etc etc - a nice try but can't hide the bloat... so again I favour live stream for events mostly.
Overall a "Big or Small" stored download for people to play locally. The rest is Americanised bloat - and I mean SUV style bloat to what other vehicle consumption are - so bigger but only marginally better only in some situations to what we had as data store.
Data stores that did the job universally (1 copy per file without all this transcoding π and disposable streams ποΈ lol
Only America or BigOil etc (mostly comes from there) could think of using resources like that π π» π» π no?
You wouldn't do these same things at home even locally - would you?
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Videos I'd create and upload:
- travels and adventures of my wife and me, to link to from my Friendica account
- talks on environmental topics given by experts (not by me)
- if friends need help with Friendica, I might upload a video showing how to get something done
I understand and agree with the need to prevent conspiracy theories from having a platform. Only those who disagree with mainstream science would call me a conspiracy theorist, such as someone who believes climate change is a hoax, or someone who believes that 15-minute cities are an attempt to restrict freedom of movement.
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This is why we gave up Youtube officially:
YouTube will cut parts from your video now. Imagine that. In this case it is from a TROM II snippet that @Alexio shared on our "legacy" YouTube channel. Mind you the documentary is free for everyone and also educational, so in a sane world it should be fair use for whatever media we've used.
We are so thankful that @PeerTube exists! We can post all of our videos on our Peertube channel videos.trom.tf/c/trom/videos without being afraid that anything will be banned or cut out.
And to no surprise Facebook does the same:
Banned the same video in several countries....
Basically we are not using YouTube or Facebook anymore since 2 years ago. Only @Alexio and @Georgi post there from time to time, mirroring our Friendica or Peertube. We do that since there are still many people following TROM on those platforms unfortunately. We are always trying to bring them to the fediverse and to these sane platforms, but change is hard...
So for now at least if some of our content can be mirrored to these trade-platforms while encouraging those following us there to change their online habits and use these other trade-free alternative platforms, then so be it.
But it is another reminder of the stupidity of our world, emerged from the practice of trade where even the reproducible at no cost digital content is "owned" and traded, so that ideas like copyright are invented to protect them. Terrible.
Te digital is abundant so we should not even put restrictions in place. But you can't do that in a trade society since so many would take advantage of that for their own gain.
#TradeRuinsEverything #capitalism #copyright #facebook #youtube #tromlive
TROM
This project argues that trade is the origin of most problems: from climate change to slavery, waste and pollution, corruption, crime, you name it. And if we understand the cause, we have a chance ...videos.trom.tf
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I for one started to care more when my videos started to be banned on those platforms, alongside some of my posts. Videos and posts that were educational and I never made any money off of them. So I, being hurt, started to care more about using other platforms. Thus, pain. That combined with my understanding about how these platforms like ytb, twitter, fb and the like operate, that they are in fact businesses/markets and not "networks".
So I think that's one way for people to start to care about changing some of their digital habits: to be extremely pissed off at those platforms, while at the same time have some curiosity to try something different.
It is very difficult, but from my experience what works is to be an example. I moved and gave no fucks about the other platforms so if anyone wanted to follow our TROM project or me, they had no choice but to move too. I made a bunch of people switch to these other alternatives.
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William B Peckham
in reply to TROM • • •Tio
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