Remember the long-since-expunged Android philosophy? "We also wanted to make sure there was no central point of failure, where one industry player could restrict or control the innovations of any other." Because the Wayback Machine remembers (web.archive.org/web/2014070211…)…
I was one of the 371 scientists who signed on to this letter urging governments to "Resist ‘dangerous and socially unacceptable’ age checks for social media." Story with link to letter: politico.eu/article/age-check-…
well one small crumb was the announcement today that Britain is using the least amount of coal for 400 years. Now if we can get gas and oil to follow...
I'm waiting overall until they share what this device will actually be. If it's just another touchscreen only device, with fingerprint & face scanners, that needs a case to avoid it breaking before I've even charged it the first time, then I'm continuing to avoid #graphene in favor of systems like #lineage & #postmarket that offer decent diversity of device compatibility.
I have a Fairphone and the biggest gripe I have with it is Android. I still can't believe Fairphone haven't read the room and provided and alternative privacy based option out of the box without having to flash firmware and risk bricking your phone. this is interesting
Unfortunately, Fairphones are the only phones I will buy from here onwards. Graphene should look at them instead.
Also, even though sanxboxed, they are using the google play spyware instead of microg replacement. They should focus their resources on sandboxing microg.
I had just about this exact conversation with my grandpa—sitting on his lap—when I was Calvin's age. But in my story he said "I have no idea" and then started to cry.
thinking out loud but it appears that there is no consensus on what the world's problems actually are.
Some countries might start wars to protect their grip on power, be it it's influence, treasury, or fear to be overrun by competing nations.
Some regimes want to protect a certain way of life, and view outside influence as a corrupting factor. Wealthier and more powerful societies can project culture that overwhelms local traditions.
There are a lot of reasons for the downfall of the #USA but a big one is the purchase of traditional #media by plutocrat goons
Look at this fucking shit:
EDIT: some people are angry that i am potentially misleading because this isn't a recent headline. i am trying to make a point about the decay of traditional media and our current state of things. but yes, this is is from 2014, after #bezos bought WaPo. my point still stands, and you should follow my account for commentary, not breaking news
the point i make is true. it is also true the headline isn't current. i don't know. i'm not disturbed by what you're saying, nor that there is an indication it's recent, nor that i'm misleading anyone
@TagYourToe the moron knows it well. I criticise a post pretending it's a fresh screenshot. Ben could have given the facts/source that the pic is very old. @benroyce
The author apparently is one Ian Morris claiming to be a professor at Stanford (I don't even have to look up this person's history to learn they were born into privilege do I?)
Interestingly this was written back in 2014 apparently. They were also running hit pieces against Obama. 🙄 I didn't realize they were this bad even that long ago.
Hey, he's got a point. Wars are the one reliable reason to extract and recirculate wealth hoarded by sillionaires that they're relatively powerless to lobby agains, and this recirculation of stagnant wealth can, indeed, make everybody richer.
Of course, we could be even safer and richer if we recirculated the stagnant money without having any wars.
@riley Your point is great. The problem is that how to define stagnant money? For instance, Elon Musk can be hardly called stagnant money, as he invests most of his wealth into creating other new tech companies, SpaceX, Tesla, Neuralink, Boring Company, etc.. to redistribute his wealth would probably mean less new tech created, but also more equal society with a little less polarization probably. This is what EU or Europe in general has chosen mostly by taxing and social welfare.
The United States doesn't suffer the full consequences of war: the bombing of cities, mass graves, displacement and migration, and cities razed to the ground. My family memories of the war include my grandfather's brother being killed with a shovel by a guard in a camp, and then being relocated. An American civilian watches the war on television and worries only about whether oil prices will rise. He doesn't have to worry about bombs falling on his home.
the point i am making is true. that it isn't recent doesn't change that. but i suppose there is an expectation that my account is a breaking news account?
Armin, Paul: if you want to unfollow me, that's fine. i believe you're holding me to expectations which are unfair on flimsy grounds
that someone makes a point with their account, if it is true or not. not that they are paid reporters. obviously i am not
This entry was edited (Thursday, March 5, 2026, 12:58 PM)
@paulschoe I don't think that it's openly manipulated. Depending on the device, the date can be under the picture. Then it would be wrongly cut. 😉 @Linkshaender @benroyce
@paulschoe @NatureMC Nope, I have to object Petra. Just did a test on four different devices. Every time the date is clearly visible between the title and the illustration. No way you can accidentally skip that. For me personally, alas, that‘s a hard blow to Bens credibility.
@paulschoe @NatureMC By browsing thru the comments I am not astonished by the fact how few acutally looked up the article (at least the date) or read it (or beware, at least read an abstract of the book by Ian Morris if not the book itself). This just shows that (and Ben should have known this as he left out the date) how easy it is also in the „friendly fediverse“ to misguide people and how lazy and unread most of them are.
To my regret, but, as you demonstrate, the picture seems to be manipulated by removing the date,, from now on I will be more cautious when I see posts from Ben.
right. because i'm not a paid reporter. nothing i said was untrue. i was making a point. you're acting like you bought a newspaper and found out the reporter lied. it's a little overdramatic on your part don't you think?
Wars do make some richer and are an excellent way to stimulate the economy (when the war is sufficiently far away, obviously).
The USA figured this out in the middle of the great depression just before deciding to join WWII, and has been fighting wars ever since. The rest of the world isn’t particularly happy about it.
everyone's always getting so fucking upset about the wrong things. i just don't fucking care anymore. it's always so overwrought and dramatic on the fucking fediverse. we're going to hell in a handbasket, and that seems to me to be the bigger problem
This entry was edited (Thursday, March 5, 2026, 1:13 PM)
there's a lot of people angry about this is the comments. i'm thinking of editing it, but at the same time i'm somewhat unimpressed with the idea that i'm misleading anyone. it's a real headline
Fwiw I think your original point is valid with or without the date. If the professional factcheckers of the fediverse object to your edit, they should just unfollow and move on with their lives. The nitpicky arguments on here about the correct way to post are tiresome. @NatureMC
it's just reached a boiling point for me, apologies for my temper
i might have been too hard on these 4 but i CANNOT STAND this endless nitpicking on the fediverse. i just can't deal with it anymore, i'm just going to start severing connections
'I'm just a follower who appreciates your posts, thoughts, and opinions very much - you are one of the most inspiring accounts here. I appreciate you debates with facts and respect.'
The picture looked manipulated. That was a shock because I take your posts for gospel.
If you had not built a good reputation, I would not have reacted, but since it was you, and assuming that the picture was modified, I was more than surprised.
Look, if you're going to get this bent about a small and very valid criticism about a single post in which anyone taking it at face value would assume that the content was contemporaneous when in fact it was over a decade old perhaps you should have a think about it all. You're not a news service true but neither should you be misleading.
That's true, and the paper is problematic, for sure. Considering the current time and context, though, it is easy to assume it was written at this point in time which would put it in a slightly different light. Not a better one, but a different one.
@rejinl (she blocked me too. Similar experience of failing to meet her expectations of how to agree with her. It's ok -- my timeline is plenty informative and more peaceful without that...)
i liked laffy. but i also didn't comment much on their posts either, otherwise maybe i would have fallen afoul of the banhammer as well
that's why i'm talking about toning down my anger
i think what happens is valid things annoy you... then it builds and then every little fucking thing annoys you, things that aren't a problem, then boom
i don't want to do that
social media is good and bad in many ways. you have to control how you interact with it, or it controls you
A lot of words to say "greed is good". But because he's from a privileged society that has been historically benefiting from killing others he doesn't feel the need (or even see) that it should continue with "...for the victor". I have a 25 year dream of curating a lb art/design exhibition of weapons (and their uses/consequences), the most expensive, advanced and yes historically important designed items of human history. Through seeing them I wanted people to see how it is the source and the guardian of wealth of and in this country. The goal is to create a mirror to the middle classes that benefit from the results (the wealthy already know) and at least acknowledge the blood money. This piece is a great example of "there is no alternative because this is what happened". Humanity only changes with the refusal of what we are. We try or die.
@invadersil But wouldn't it be perfectly in line with the Madman Theory for the proprietor of Pravda Socia tol resolve a falling-out with Darth Melon and with the ghosts of ajatollahs past alike by offering Xitter to Iran as a war reparation?
it's worse. the headline says war, but it's about genocide:
"If only the Roman Empire could have been created without killing millions of Gauls and Greeks, if the United States could have been built without killing millions of Native Americans, if these and countless conflicts could have been resolved by discussion instead of force. But this did not happen. People almost never give up their freedoms — including, at times, the right to kill and impoverish one another — unless forced"
I generally run some news video while I cook, and sometimes eat if I'm hungry enough for it not to make me sick, Reuters, PBSNewsHour, Al Jazeera (English), sometimes deeper dives. Tonight it was Reuters, They actually ran Kegsbreath's speech (right in line with this graphic). You know it's bad when there's no commentary, as if there's no response to cover, and even the fighting Irish can't think of anything to say.
There are alternatives, and they all have different personalities.
There was one big story, I've forgotten which :/, recently that was picked up by NPR and PBS from a Substack writer. Part of what's bad is too many journalism scholarships no longer exist because the degree just gets you a sycophant's job that pays enough to payoff the remaining $100K kids had to take in loans. No one wants to subsidize that, while grads still can't pay rent and take the risk to go truly independent, so they don't.
Because every time there's an election, the candidate who's for dedicating more money to school meals, healthcare, and climate action gets zero turnout from "progressives" due to being Hillary Clinton or Kamala Harris.
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
Can't think of a government that wouldn't think that private conversations being private is controversial.
From the article itself: "But the company has now told the BBC it believes the technology prevents police and safety teams from being able to read direct messages if they needed to."
This is the truth. But it is also part of the point of E2EE. And why governments hate it.
look - realise - anyone that does have shit to hide can ALWAYS do it regardless if law. Bad people can hide communications. These laws only Impact normal people wanting normal privacy. Criminals can always do this. Laws only hit normal people.
TikTok, whose entire business plan is to extract as much information as possible from its users, so they can sell it on / target them, doesn't want not to be able to extract all the information their users aren't giving them... That doesn't surprise me one bit.
The idea that anything going through a company based in China and beholden to the Chinese government is going to be private is laughable, even if they claim to implement E2EE.
In this video I explain how easy it is to understand a power system for your motorhome. How to create new connections, what cables to use, and how to do it safely.
That is great and frustrating at the same time. This "enshitification" is totally a natural result of trading stuff. There is 0 difference between supermarkets putting a 5.99 price on food, or putting candies where people stay in line to pay, or deceiving people with those old ads on TV, and Facebook, Youtube and the like adding clickable ads in the middle of a video or making it play the next video automatically, or not making it clear what is a post what is an ad....
These are trade-based goods and services, and for them to sell, you have to engage in these "marketing" practices.
THIS IS NOTHING NEW!
Pretty much all companies and individuals do these in order to sell shit. All need to be biased towards their own business. Even the local small businesses are doing it. Everyone does it.
So instead of selecting a few of the most outrageous practices, call them shitty, and point the finger at them, better do 2 things:
Understand why these products are "shitty". It is trade, the need to trade, that makes people put more ads, collect more data, etc..
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That is great and frustrating at the same time. This "enshitification" is totally a natural result of trading stuff. There is 0 difference between supermarkets putting a 5.99 price on food, or putting candies where people stay in line to pay, or deceiving people with those old ads on TV, and Facebook, Youtube and the like adding clickable ads in the middle of a video or making it play the next video automatically, or not making it clear what is a post what is an ad....
These are trade-based goods and services, and for them to sell, you have to engage in these "marketing" practices.
THIS IS NOTHING NEW!
Pretty much all companies and individuals do these in order to sell shit. All need to be biased towards their own business. Even the local small businesses are doing it. Everyone does it.
So instead of selecting a few of the most outrageous practices, call them shitty, and point the finger at them, better do 2 things:
Understand why these products are "shitty". It is trade, the need to trade, that makes people put more ads, collect more data, etc.. Currency, data, or attention trade.
Simply make 2 categories: trade-free and trade-based. If a product or a service is trade-free, it means it does not want anything from you, the user. Not your data, not your currency, not your attention. Therefore why would it want to make that product or service shitty?
Makes no sense.
We made a book all about that - tromsite.com/trombooks/#flipbo… and guess what? It is trade-free. Read it online or download it.
Side note....I like Louis but for fucks sake man start prioritizing a Peertube instance and post there rather than on the "shit" youtube....
That video was so genuinely funny I was laughing my ass off 🤣 Truly refreshing to see something like this in this day and age. And I gotta say the Norwegian government is pretty badass for doing this! Let's hope more governments follow suit 🤞
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
That video was so genuinely funny I was laughing my ass off 🤣 Truly refreshing to see something like this in this day and age. And I gotta say the Norwegian government is pretty badass for doing this! Let's hope more governments follow suit 🤞
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.
@draNgNon that sounds a bit like influencer-style social media then. Is it a cacophony in a good way, or not? Would a Google+ like Circles functionality, such as Bonfire are bringing to the fediverse, bring solace?
Firstly, I've only ever experienced Google+ circles in an environment where the participants are similar to LinkedIn, posting about professional topics and/or corporate syncophacy. They are a good way to seal yourself into an echo chamber/bubble, even within that type of discourse
Secondly, influencer social media always feels more like people pitching their point of view or hot take or maybe just themselves. It's about collecting follower count for credibility. Fedi mostly isn't like that but there are some.
Lastly, I'm in the US, right now with political situation there is necessarily disruption and shouting and points to be made. (Some of them might even be correct!). But it does affect social media experience; it would probably make matters worse to increase the echo chamber effects.
@draNgNon thanks, some very good food for thought.
I think the crucial point is that we do not know and do not offer proper ways to deal with different modes of communication, esp. if the only medium channel constitutes a stream of sticky notes, such as we have here in this #microblogging space.
On the first point, when is something an #EchoChamber vs. a healthy interest area, I think depends how well one is able to cross the 'membranes' of all the various social contexts and information spaces one navigates online, as it were.
There should be a place for 'influencing' to an extent if only to reach your crowd and build community and such. But all in balance and proportion and clear social context preferably. Non-profits and #activist groups want to influence, we may want to be informed.
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@draNgNon thanks, some very good food for thought.
I think the crucial point is that we do not know and do not offer proper ways to deal with different modes of communication, esp. if the only medium channel constitutes a stream of sticky notes, such as we have here in this #microblogging space.
On the first point, when is something an #EchoChamber vs. a healthy interest area, I think depends how well one is able to cross the 'membranes' of all the various social contexts and information spaces one navigates online, as it were.
There should be a place for 'influencing' to an extent if only to reach your crowd and build community and such. But all in balance and proportion and clear social context preferably. Non-profits and #activist groups want to influence, we may want to be informed.
To the last point. There's urgency to address the dark world situation, and either organize or lose. #SX defines #CALMculture as a way to engage in constructive #activism..
Some of these can be mitigated by nurturing cultural habits.
> 6. The worst one: people use other names instead to call them so filters don't work.
This one in particular. Besides references to toxic people you see it too with folks saying Gaggle, GMAFIA, Farcebook, etc.
Often these names are used in someone's "activism package", but using them is imho more performative to an existing in-group than that they constructively appeal to others and persuade them to join the good cause.
I posted something related to this today. See CALM culture in..
The acronym also litterally means that our social media culture becomes calmer, and there's better separation to where there's activism, and where the natural talk of the town.
Whatever we think of #AI / #LLM mad hype cycle, we have to deal with its rushed and inhumane dumping of the technology into global human society. #CALMculture is a strategic approach to that allows activist voices to have the most impact in dealing with the dangers of disruptive technology introductions, and focuses beyond berating people and demanding sacrifice ("don't use, or else.."), to creating a process that helps win people over and work together on best outcomes and in direction of solutions.
#CALM stands for Constructive activism-led movements, such as Social coding commons. Coding is social, and #SocialCoding the holistic approach to ensure that.
Social coding commons evolves Social experience design or #SX, solution development for grassroots movements, supported by the #SocialWeb.
In the thread below I copied a post to #Gleam's community with a suggestion to ponder about best outcomes from current and ongoing AI disruption, and deal with risks.
tl'dr I think you might be right. the below are some thoughts but isn't directly addressing what you were saying, it just sits in the same universe.
I've been thinking about this exchange, and what I am seeing on Fedi is there's a tendency on the part of the promoters (especially on Mastodon, but to some extent all of them) to conflate shared interests with server preferences. way back in the day, Usenet was popular, and your connection to it did help as part of your (with a university, or other provider) (username@the.org.im.in.edu) but the discussions were separated by topics (sci.space, talk.bizarre, etc) and at least from what I saw did not become an echo chamber. some topics were moderated.
Reddit is centralized but still tries to do that. however since there's moderation and such still an echo chamber and everyone has throwaway handles.
Fedi is more like usenet, but people instead tell newcomers to find community by picking the right server and using hashtags. that's offputting and also leaves people who don't have time to go digging kind of lost and at the
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tl'dr I think you might be right. the below are some thoughts but isn't directly addressing what you were saying, it just sits in the same universe.
I've been thinking about this exchange, and what I am seeing on Fedi is there's a tendency on the part of the promoters (especially on Mastodon, but to some extent all of them) to conflate shared interests with server preferences. way back in the day, Usenet was popular, and your connection to it did help as part of your (with a university, or other provider) (username@the.org.im.in.edu) but the discussions were separated by topics (sci.space, talk.bizarre, etc) and at least from what I saw did not become an echo chamber. some topics were moderated.
Reddit is centralized but still tries to do that. however since there's moderation and such still an echo chamber and everyone has throwaway handles.
Fedi is more like usenet, but people instead tell newcomers to find community by picking the right server and using hashtags. that's offputting and also leaves people who don't have time to go digging kind of lost and at the mercy of the boosting preferences of whoever does have time. and the hashtags are a guess, and rely on accurate autocomplete (which in my experience doesn't exist), and are often not used by people posting.
if there was a better way to register and define topics other than using freeform hashtags that might help, and also would shut down a lot of "hoa" behaviour like "put politics behind a trigger warning" etc. it would make it easier to avoid undesired topics, by simply not following them. but I suspect that means a change to the AP protocol which is already a mess.
@maikel this is a very cool and relevant direction that explores new social networking use cases and areas, and where reflecting deeply on the social side of the equation will probably pay good divident when it comes to implementing the supportive technical side.
I posted the other day about the social networking direction I am most interested about, which requires healthy ecosystem and inclusive commons based collaboration.
SX considers your applied research area to be exploring the Personal social networking paradigm, which in a more general sense also facilitate the notion of what it means to be "working in commons" on things that are "commons based".
Trust and safety are major concerns, I gather. I am not sure what is the status today, but the Open Hospitality Network at one point was investigating an ActivityPub based p
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@maikel this is a very cool and relevant direction that explores new social networking use cases and areas, and where reflecting deeply on the social side of the equation will probably pay good divident when it comes to implementing the supportive technical side.
I posted the other day about the social networking direction I am most interested about, which requires healthy ecosystem and inclusive commons based collaboration.
SX considers your applied research area to be exploring the Personal social networking paradigm, which in a more general sense also facilitate the notion of what it means to be "working in commons" on things that are "commons based".
Trust and safety are major concerns, I gather. I am not sure what is the status today, but the Open Hospitality Network at one point was investigating an ActivityPub based platform similar to CouchSurfing, where these aspects were also of key importance. @mariha hosts this community.
So the area where my plans go I call "Residential social networking", geo-fenced but inter-connected social networking circles that cover a city, town, or rural area, and which enable their residents to not only create content on the network, but the dynamic apps and services based on local needs that exist in the area. The intent of a residential social network is to engage people *offline* and in activities that support the local economy. Or rather strengthens the Circles of Sustainability in SX terminology:
And all this should be a relatively low-code affair, directly accessible already for a first-time dev. This requires having a mature open standards based healthy technology foundation and thriving ecosystem.
I am a developer, though with rusty coding skills these days, and I might have started a fedi app design in 2018 or so. But this would not have led to the desired outcome, just throw one more app-centric software in the mix.
...like you, no matter how weird you consider yourself to either date or build a support network when you live in a place where that's absolutely necessary for survival.
@unattributed I like that imagery, thank you. That aligns with the notion of a peopleverse/ Forming a road network that connects the offline and online worlds.
Exactly, it's kind of like each person has their own topography of what the Fediverse looks like based on who they are interacting with, and the nodes of interests where they intersect.
I call thinking about how people would experience such a network and taking their needs in account to be examples of Personal social networking in a new paradigm that differs to how we now think about social media (which is in a very technical sense characterized by "people are users").
Well, there are a couple of potential negative connotations to the word user. First, "user" was frequently used in the 90's for the customers that purchased some software products.
Then there is also the connotation of "drug" users.
Maybe the Fediverse is better thought of as groups of participants in communities that may or may not overlap.
first it was about LGBTQ+, then I started to think about autistics, adhd, neurodivergencies, then about BAME.
Most of it, mimics algorithms I have already in my head about minimising the cost of a UK Nat Rep survey (e.g.: the more rare a participant is, the more expensive it becomes in e.g: Cint) for a previous job.
But each layer has to be carefully thought to be the most respectful and inclusive possible.
(part of why I'm preparing for a psychology degree to get some specialisation into Social Psychology).
The goal is, a dating / support app (the fact it is both things is key) where you can find people ....
No, I love ghosts, they have the coolest stories, and I don't have to deal with those pesky living people with their racism and their hate. I also love villages, they're livable, they're walkable and the only real problem is being stuck out in the middle of nowhere, and that downside doesn't really apply online. And bustling: Every place is full of people I want to hear from.
I don't have the time to hear from all of them, but that's just the FOMO speaking.
I am especially annoyed by this practice of referring to companies and people you don't like by dysphemisms, as if saying their real name would summon them like Candyman. Thus "the orange site" instead of Hackernews, "the bird site" instead of Twitter, etc.
I suspect this might have had some utility on Twitter or other corporate media sites, where bot armies would search for a name so they could brigade anyone who disparaged their favorite site or person. But here it's just annoying, and, as you point out, plays hell with filters.
I practiced myself in avoidance of the term, and found that to be refreshing and lending a different perspective.
"Users" carries an aspect of depersonalization, but also implies an ownership relationship that creeps into the developers thinking, and even where the noble ones say "I serve MY users" it has consequences to the entire dynamics around software dynamics, and how the solution deliverable is able to serve the needs of different stakeholder groups.
Social experience design focusses on needs-based development and starts to consider problem statements first for all identified stakeholders in the solution delivery process.
Note that once you are conditioned to avoid the term "User" after a full career of addictive use of the word in that dev context, you start to notice how weird and awkward it really is.
You don't notice that while still addicted to your daily dose of saying "user" in broad generalization and technical abstraction. Devs think it is practical to use the word, pragmatic. But it is not. It is a technical word, and the use is similar to when a dev says "JSON" for instance. It is depersonalized, and that depersonalization seeps deep into the codebase over time. It is a word that anchors devs in the technosphere and keeps them there.
This entry was edited (Tuesday, March 3, 2026, 7:18 AM)
Een sidestep.. Het valt me op dat bijna niemand op de fediverse meer boost. Een boost is een schaars goed, en op zich is dat een gunstige ontwikkeling die aansluit bi het Personal social networking paradigma van SX. Maar voor orgs en mensen die een goede boodschap willen overdragen naar een groter publiek, zoals ook CEDO, is het geen goede zaak. Er moet een goede balans zijn, waarbij ook non-profits en actie groepen het gevoel hebben nut te behalen dmv campagnes i.p.v. tijdrovende friend-of-a-friend netwerk opbouw.
That is a nice thing the fediverse offers. Note that if you enter a descriptive email in your account registration, or talk about personal matters in fedi direct messages, then technically you are pseudonymous as the instance admins have access to that information if they wish to.
A cosy village with a bustling public transit system bussing in interesting people to see people I like who say hello with a cheery wave as they pass by.
I keep retuning to be any one of those things and more, depending on my prevailing energy/focus here/mood ... that's the beauty -- if frustration at the time it takes -- of being your own algo-creator.
[edit] -- notices "Automated" in the profile. Wonders ... HOW automated !!?
This entry was edited (Tuesday, March 3, 2026, 11:52 AM)
An insight of this thread, also indicated in your post, is that everyone creates their own social experience and can foster good habits to improve it. Fediverse allows us to do that. It enables us to be more social online and improve our 'cyberspace' cultures. A paradigm shift towards Personal social networking.
PS. It is really me, a person formally known as @humanetech at mastodon social. The 'automated' indicator was first of all a tease (a hedonic driver), but also the intent to use this account as an organization channel for Social coding commons, operated by a group of people. Which didn't happen thus far. Things move slow, and time moves fast. There's no automation, just plain masto web UI and me typing :)
An insight of this thread, also indicated in your post, is that everyone creates their own social experience and can foster good habits to improve it. Fediverse allows us to do that. It enables us to be more social online and improve our 'cyberspace' cultures. A paradigm shift towards Personal social networking.
PS. It is really me, a person formally known as @humanetech at mastodon social. The 'automated' indicator was first of all a tease (a hedonic driver), but also the intent to use this account as an organization channel for Social coding commons, operated by a group of people. Which didn't happen thus far. Things move slow, and time moves fast. There's no automation, just plain masto web UI and me typing :)
That said, given the huge disruption we face today with AI et al, much more pondering of the risk and impact are in order, than the random firings of complaints into the ether I see so often. See:
Whatever we think of #AI / #LLM mad hype cycle, we have to deal with its rushed and inhumane dumping of the technology into global human society.
#CALMculture is a strategic approach to that allows activist voices to have the most impact in dealing with the dangers of disruptive technology introductions, and focuses beyond berating people and demanding sacrifice ("don't use, or else.."), to creating a process that helps win people over and work together on best outcomes and in direction of solutions.
#CALM stands for Constructive activism-led movements, such as Social coding commons. Coding is social, and #SocialCoding the holistic approach to ensure that.
Social coding commons evolves Social experience design or #SX, solution development for grassroots movements, supported by the #SocialWeb.
In the thread below I copied a post to #Gleam's community with a suggestion to ponder about best outcomes from current and ongoing AI disruption, and deal with risks.
I posted a Question topic “Ensuring best outcomes from AI disruption” to the Gleam community. I shall copy the text below … As an activist with a strategic mindset I note how so much activism that is out there is very haphazard, inefficient, and m…
Personal take, after thinking for quite a while about that: A larger metropolitan area in the global Northwest. Not too densely populated but far-reaching and covering a lot of real estate. A lot of roads and interconnects in between different parts, partly along areas that have been somewhat structured but in the end not really grown into /any/ kind of meaningful use. And a lot of more clearly outlined neighbourhoods of very different kinds, styles, attitudes and openness towards new arrivals or strangers, including places were you'd like to settle and stay for an indefinite amout of time and ... places, people you'd better avoid without taking a closer look or even stopping there.
Yes, a nice depiction. An intricate social networking landscape is shaping up, where our social graphs fan out to interact in many different social settings and contexts. Lovely, thank you.
Yes, something like that. Including its chances regarding diversity, but also its challenges related to community management, bridging gaps and keeping infrastructure both working and at a sane level. Maybe it's similar problems in general, no matter which kind of network one's talking about. 😊
@z428 yes, this is the focus area of Social experience experience design, which takes on the challenge of overcoming the wicked challenge of cocreation at scale in "herding of cats" grassroots environments, where regular top-down forms of organization and governance like community-building are doomed to fail.
When speaking in a general sense, you can substitute with people, person, human. "The user" becomes "the person", and "user-centric" becomes human-centric or people-centric, whatever fits best in context.
More interesting when not just defaulting to saying "user", is asking the question: Whom are we serving with our software? Who is the audience, who are stakeholders and stakeholder groups that have Needs that must be addressed by our solution?
"Joyful creation", the SX formula that envisions cocreation at scale supported by the social web, discerns between Creators and Clients stakeholder groups. If we apply this formula to Software develpment, then creator might be a Dev, but also Tester, Technical writer, etc. People switch stakeholder hats: A dev being client of an upstream project.
In your case you may have Journalists in a News Media domain. And that "Customer" stakeholder name, may indicate a Sales domain. Or may be a stakeholder group, really.
What I particularly like in your definition, is that it makes clear that "fediverse" by itself indicates a pure technosphere. It enables social communication, and merely facilitates it. What people do on that channel, the way they communicate and how they interact with others then determines the social experience.
SX starts to consider a social experience from the most personal perspective, where a person has individual needs wrt their online participation. Then using the "Pyramid of perspective" this scale up to consider inter-personal relationships, and at the top of the pyramid and at the largest scale we shape the constructs of society together.
(Note that SX is a universal solution development methodology, even though it starts with a focus on social web and software development.)
I hope my response didn't come off snarky, as that wasn't how I meant it - at worst I intended to be a bit pedantic. And relatable analogies are *always* at my fingertips when talking to the inexperienced or "non-tech" social network users, for sure.
But *eventually* we need to draw people in to a little more media- and tech-literate understanding.
I'm bookmarking your blog post, thanks - this is a topic in my current academic modules and my hoped-for masters capstone
What is so interesting is to discern between the technical and social, and I think that most people have a very functional-technical perspective of what it means to communicate online, so to say. Consider it merely as extra channels to interact with others, more choice to connect.
But of course our online social network is much more than merely a channel, and we have to 'project our social' somehow over these thin copper and fiberglass wires, while we try to make sense and interpret the social signals that come from other remote places.
I think we underestimate the impact of communicating online, and the narrow 'social bandwidth' that our current networking tools support. Then we translate online situations to how we would behave offline and get wrong expectations, misconceptions, and subequenctly miscommunications.
We are still all youngers online, still all learning the ropes, while we do social networking offline for 1,000's of years already.
@johannab I for my part are very happy you find this interesting. Addressing the social side is not the most popular among developer-heavy crowds :)
Feel welcome to participate in our matrix channels or forum. The latter serves as a note-taking tool, or - under SX definition - as a commons based prosperity vault, aggregating value over time as people leave their 2 cents.
Note the SX Mindfulness principle of Social coding commons.. the movement moves, or it pauses awaiting value aggregation by the next participant. Timeless. Everything hinges on proactive participation (and on the basis of intrinsic motivation following Hedonic peer production principles).
I am mentioning, as at the moment the movement is slow-moving, since I am looking for income to sustain my work in the commons. In other words I must let the SX Sustainability principle prevail now :)
Here a link to the core principles of Social experience design:
that last line - that's exactly it. I've been mostly under-the-radar blogging my thinking on this again lately (having started making these observations in 1989-90).
My current interest is (re)connecting real-world, localizable communities and real-world Third Places, using digital social tools as *tools* for those human social networks to get their needs met.
So the area where my plans go I call "Residential social networking", geo-fenced but inter-connected social networking circles that cover a city, town, or rural area, and which enable their residents to not only create content on the network, but the dynamic apps and services based on local needs that exist in the area. The intent of a residential social network is to engage people *offline* and in activities that support the local economy. Or rather strengthens the Circles of Sustainability in SX terminology:
And all this should be a relatively low-code affair, directly accessible already for a first-time dev. This requires having a mature open standards based healthy technology foundation and thriving ecosystem.
I am a developer, though with rusty coding skills these days, and I might have started a fedi app design in 2018 or so. But this would not have led to the desired outcome, just throw one more app-centric software in the mix.
Read the blog post, and these are astute observation and valuable way of thinking about the networking environment, both offline as well as online, and how they interact together, how they intertwine. #SX envisions a peopleverse (which is a concept, not a name), a hypothetical space where the interaction is seamless and technology unobtrusively serves our day to day needs.
Often the talk of the town in the #ActivityPub dev circles is about some feature or other, an app functionality and the extent to which it can be made interoperable. Technical implementation details dominate the discussion. And drama ensues on the broader #fediverse if social impact and other externalities are overlooked in an app design.
When comparing #microblogging we have today, it really is like sticky notes on the fridge, which fall off or are removed by people. And we project all communication modes onto them.
I very much think you and I have arrived at the same space, perhaps from different directions and with different vocabularies - I'm still very much learning how to communicate my terminologies and I hope it's OK that you've prompted me to shift into some of yours!
My paid-work background is +/- 30 years in "tech support", but much involved roles with titles related to "integration" , "deployment" and "client care". Good tools are made when we start with UX/SX and work back.
I'm now a (hopefully temporarily) unwaged grad student in an interdisciplinary urbanism/planning/systems program mashing that all up with community-first technology planning.
I have a seminar discussion tonight on a recently assigned "The Mayor's Brief" paper, and I took the approach of presenting and argument that Cities need to own their own social technology tools.
Totally! Cities should have their own tools. I find the whole #SmartCity trend to be dystopic #SurveillanceCapitalism driven, from what I've seen of it. Large corporations in the driver seat, plenty #BigTech, and a general 'drive for control' by technical means, rather than creating and evolving vibrant and safe living spaces by social means and encouragement of close participation of local residents in sustaining that.
It is hard to find sustenance to focus on the important applied R&D in the more social areas, with most #funding and support reserved for the cold hard tech side. While tech can only ever be supportive of "true social". It must address people's needs.
Totally! Cities should have their own tools. I find the whole #SmartCity trend to be dystopic #SurveillanceCapitalism driven, from what I've seen of it. Large corporations in the driver seat, plenty #BigTech, and a general 'drive for control' by technical means, rather than creating and evolving vibrant and safe living spaces by social means and encouragement of close participation of local residents in sustaining that.
It is hard to find sustenance to focus on the important applied R&D in the more social areas, with most #funding and support reserved for the cold hard tech side. While tech can only ever be supportive of "true social". It must address people's needs.
I'm biased but think its urgent to #fund initiatives like Social coding commons and #SX for fedi to stave off existential challenges. I approached @nlnet among others. Current #EU mandate by @EUCommission for @ngi results in a tech-first "code it and they will come", not a peopleverse.
The current fediverse is an evolutionary dead-end for 2 reasons:
1. It has painted itself in a small niche of decentralizing typical social media use cases, by means of post-facto interop and the introduction of protocol decay.
2. Lacking a proper grassroots standardization process, and with the primary mechanism for fediverse extension being only post-facto interoperability, there is no way out.
Congratulations to the early adopters, who managed to "cross the chasm" with their own app platforms. It took true grit to become deep #ActivityPub experts, and plug holes needed for your app, but you have made it. Post-facto interop works in your favor now. You are unrestrained to productively add more features in your app, and put them on the fedi wire for others to deal with.
To avoid fedi to become less and less attractive to newcomers, we must now consider:
“Why do we want to grow the open social web, and for whom?” -- @ben
I follow Evan, and Julian, but those threads sometimes cause me to glaze over - I've never been "a coder".
That said, I just re-read that one and holy cow, I'm seeing lots of analogies to problems with the DICOM protocol which DID drive my tech services/deployments work for decades.
One of the hardest challenges in keeping a human patient's medical records in order, and secure, is that different stakeholders need different relational connection to different components
DICOM data structures get crazy twisted, because every element in a recordbase could potentially be the point which is seen as the "root" from which everything branches.
Radiologists view Images, which have attributes including the Study, the Order, and the Patient.
Clinical care delivery people need Reports, which derive from Studies but also include Orders and Patients as attributes.
Primary care physicians are concerned with Patients, who come with 1:n relationships with attributes such as Orders, Studies, Reports, referrals, results, diagnoses....
Patients don't give a shit about having any attributes at all, they want to feel better and get the hell away from anything to do with medical technology!
I can see AP being at least as ridiculous as DICOM, though social networking is probably slightly lower-stakes for most. 🤣
I think what you will find interesting, and what immediately leads to a sort of mindset shift - which is required to fully grasp the holistic approach that SX follows - is that SX defines #SocialNetworking as follows:
"Any direct or indirect human interaction between people."
Period. That's it. It encompasses that vast scope, which includes both our offline and online worlds (handy, to focus on that peopleverse).
A healthcare system is a complex mulitplayer environment, where many people in different stakeholder roles work with sensitive data. That is the technical perspective.
On the social side, it is a social network, for which you can apply SX as the evolutionary solution design methodology.
I'm out of it now, but wow, it would be immensely beneficial for a patient to truly *own* their medical data lake and just exchange the relevant records when needed.
It would also be several lifetimes' work to do that correctly, I fear, and there are eleventy-million and one startups making their own wrongheaded attempts at it with "patient portals" and "AI health" and other such malwares.
Just start small and 🍀 evolve. A good example is the Netherlands where I live. In the 50s it was as car-heavy as any US state today, but by following a consistent policy we turned it into a bikers' paradise. And that is now an exemplar for other cities and even countries across the world. An export product :D
hahaha - your example appears somewhere in my world almost daily - urbanism studies, active transportation folks I follow, and in my fediverse-urbanism interconnections all the time.
It's amazing what we can transform if we get the entrenched and unimaginative status quo out of the way.
What no one has remarked thus far, is that this #poll has a serious flaw. Sure, if you're in a village or city you can find roads and highways that lead you to answer the question above.
But if you are in a Ghost Town out in the wilderness, the poll likely won't pass by your timeline. And warp the outcome of this little #fediverse survey.
Boosts are appreciated so the poll has more chance to find the outer reaches of our fedi universe.
Even more remarkable is the near complete absence of the #ActivityPub developer community in mingling in the social side of the discussion.
To learn how #fedizens actually *experience* this here fediverse. A #fediverse which results from them tying their apps together, to hopefully get more than the sum of individual parts. By means of facilitating #interoperability, technically speaking. But it involves more than getting that feature across the wire to the next app.
There's exists a clear gap between #sociosphere and #technosphere, where the latter must serve the former to bring real solutions. Otherwise it is all apps and not much seamless social fabric to navigate. No peopleverse anywhere in sight. Just apps and
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Even more remarkable is the near complete absence of the #ActivityPub developer community in mingling in the social side of the discussion.
To learn how #fedizens actually *experience* this here fediverse. A #fediverse which results from them tying their apps together, to hopefully get more than the sum of individual parts. By means of facilitating #interoperability, technically speaking. But it involves more than getting that feature across the wire to the next app.
There's exists a clear gap between #sociosphere and #technosphere, where the latter must serve the former to bring real solutions. Otherwise it is all apps and not much seamless social fabric to navigate. No peopleverse anywhere in sight. Just apps and users of them.
The apps see great success, and I enjoy their use a lot. But I don't see a future for the app-centric fediverse where it comes to providing mankind the future of #SocialNetworking.
The current fediverse is an evolutionary dead-end for 2 reasons:
1. It has painted itself in a small niche of decentralizing typical social media use cases, by means of post-facto interop and the introduction of protocol decay.
2. Lacking a proper grassroots standardization process, and with the primary mechanism for fediverse extension being only post-facto interoperability, there is no way out.
Congratulations to the early adopters, who managed to "cross the chasm" with their own app platforms. It took true grit to become deep #ActivityPub experts, and plug holes needed for your app, but you have made it. Post-facto interop works in your favor now. You are unrestrained to productively add more features in your app, and put them on the fedi wire for others to deal with.
To avoid fedi to become less and less attractive to newcomers, we must now consider:
“Why do we want to grow the open social web, and for whom?” -- @ben
In a technical sense constituting a shift towards a fediverse of apps and services.
In a social sense as inter-connected spaces that are open for people to explore, collaborate, cocreate, and do all the things we do offline to the extent we can do them online too, plus all the extra's that remote connection by technological means have to offer.
But that is an exploratory design area. A vast space hardly explored. This is where Social experience design focuses. See the diagram at coding.social where SX broadens horizons by taking a more holistic approach (actually utterly holistic and boundless in scope, as SX scales from personal to societal levels).
What #SX envisions is a peopleverse. A hypothetical place-to-be in the future where our online and offline worlds are seamlessly intertwined and in services of our day to day activities and human needs.
Adding a marker to this poll on how people experience the fediverse, with absolutely delightful outcome and responses, but also showing the huge gap to the developer community who seem to be lost in tech and their own app domains.
Don't worry it is more a note-to-self on the forum which serves as note-taking tool. The link it includes is to the poll at the top of this thread. Other than that I have tooted all over the place on the subject matter, which is unfortunately now all dispersed and sinking in timeline history (though I kept a bunch of bookmarks).
I guess I've been on the look-out for discussion by the people making things here. Owncast, Bonfire, RFF, Indie Beat Radio and TV, Fireside Fedi, Fedilab, dansup's many projects, and folk involved in AP more directly. They've all been talking about what they do and plan, and have listened or given a voice to people asking and answering questions about how the Fedi grows. There does seem to be plenty of social discussion out there.
You are certainly not wrong. And I apologize, as it is not immediately clear that my post above is against the backdrop of 2 weeks of microblogging addressing a whole range of paint points and inhibitors to a fedi that evolves to be the future of social networking. Microblogging is too fragmentary and 'context-lossy', but unfortunately the primary comms channel for the dev community.
The gist and big issue is that the current fediverse is app-centric in nature, and accepted a work method that will further that app-centricness by introducing ever more protocol decay and tech debt. The examples you gave above are app talk, turn to features, howto federate feature, tech talk, get mired in impl details. And importantly: do not catch up with standards. That is up to some poor volunteers, who see that things are going side-ways.
There are 2 fediverse forks: the promised one in the AP specs, and the one we have. There's no shared vision, and tons of misconception to deal with.
aha, then the apologies are mine for not considering the context before sending a reply. I guess it's more difficult to start a conversation - and for it to be seen - than to join one.
This entry was edited (Thursday, March 5, 2026, 11:47 AM)
@lproven ouch, I am sorry. At least it serves the goal of making social networking better. And the results thus far we are a long way on the road towards a Personal social networking paradigm shifts that provides you more control in finding the crowd you're most comfortable with.
yes, I can understand that, and when e.g. we compare with LinkedIn, then it is all full of "add your like" polls that are not more than influencer growth-hacking. We should not get there.
Note that I posted this against a backdrop of warning for existential threats that the fediverse also faces at the same time. The top of this thread and onwards gives a good summary..
The thread has many forks that delve in the interesting underlying social dynamics that we'd benefit from if we better understood them, and able to support them in our tools.
For example the discussion triggered by @johannab in this response..
My problem with using person vor journalist is as follows:
- The Organizations are the actual, paying customers (Sales domain, but also grouping element for authorization checks) - We have journalists on both ends of our software. *our* journalists produce news which the customers journalists use to write their news - people are everywhere in our system. So we need words to differentiate between them
You may look at domain driven design here, the 'strategic design' parts, that is.
The solutions are to either use more specific stakeholder names than "Journalist", and perhaps make Journalist a stakeholder group.
Or distinguish the bounded contexts that define and restrict the meaning of Journalist to a particular sub-domain. Bounded contexts form consistency boundaries in the software design, and when you communicate across boundaries you can take contextual or semantic differences into account.
That is the part where tactical patterns apply, like an anti-corruption layer between the different journalistic contexts.
ECommerce is the usual example, where an Order has a different meaning to the Sales domain than that it has to Billing or Shipping. And the data model of the Order has different fields in each of these sub-domains.
I do know about bounded contexts and DDD. Our code is structured to make clear in which context we move. I guess its more of a "Ubiquitious Language" Problem when talking with people about what we need to do and what not.
Did I mention that not *all* our "users" are journalists? Some are just "consumers". So I still need a word to mean both at the same time as they are the ones to get authorized to different parts/services of our Software.
Yes, ubiquitous language. I created an excalidraw copy of a diagram that you see quite often to explain the idea. I adapted it slightly for the purpose of coding.social
I can't say what are best name choices in your case, but at least I feel confident that it is possible to entirely avoid "user" and benefit from some extra clarity by doing so.
Hmm... Well.... I thought at least a good year about these questions and did not yet come up with better words.
I mean, yes, our journalists are creators, which clarifies that. But then our users would be consumers and thats not better. And I cant call them journalists as not every user is one. So client maybe? But that would be a better fit for the Organizations as they are the ones talking with sales and paying the money.
All in all: I really am at a loss for better words here.
I was going to answer a cozy village after seeing how crazy a place like BlueSky is whenever emotions run hot, but then I realized that effect is exactly the opposite of a cozy village.
The best and worst part of a cozy village is that you know everyone, but you can't get away from them so the limited diversity means you're always stuck on the same things. If you don't enjoy those exact same things you either keep to yourself or you leave.
In a bustling city, it takes effort to find your tribe. Even though you're in a much larger population center, your in-group can end up being far smaller than it would be in a cozy village because everyone has a much larger number of choices of groups they can belong to.
Being lost and NOT being able to quickly feel like you belong is exactly what you'd expect to experience in a bustling city.
This entry was edited (Wednesday, March 4, 2026, 9:14 AM)
Mastodon is a loose networking of occasionally like minded people who take the time to look for the tags and individuals that interest them. A community doesn't have the ability to just disassociate from problem people.
It's a neighbourhood in an old city, a chowk. I see a lot of the same folk and we look after each other. There's a river that connects us to other parts of the city, and market gardens, and hills still covered with forests. I look after an old monastery at the base of one of those hills, with a big tree in the courtyard. There's quite a large bazaar nearby and many friends have workshops and sell things there. Sometimes I go for a cycle ride to other neighbourhoods where I have colleagues or friends. Folks come by for morning rituals or just good food. Sometimes drunk twats from the business district get lost and show up here, so someone has to help them leave.
@yetiinabox this I really like as a mental image depicting the future of social networking.
A rallying cry of coding.social is to (dare to) Reimagine Social. To reimagine social networking holds a challenge to think out of the box, and distinguish the sociosphere from the technosphere that should support it.
On the social side we can pursue dreams together, while we materialize them as we realize corresponding technology visions on the technical side.
We are nowhere near of the deliberate solution design of our dreams (pun intended: added wordplay), but framing your technology effort in a proper social context is a great way to more meaningful and purposeful software development. Good examples are @Bonfire and @Framasoft
Framasoft lets the artwork, created by @davidrevoy, speak for the vibes and values of the open technology landscape they envision. The imagery depicts the dream driving the vision.
To Reimagine Social our place on the Fediverse Adventure Map is here ...
For me the fediverse is more like a cozy village, because, unlike you, I only have a few hundred followers. But they’re quality followers that interact, which requires time to reply to their comments. And I only spend a couple of hours online. I paint, draw and make music most of my day.
With developer verification, Google's Apple envy threatens to dismantle Android's open legacy Questions remain as Google prepares to lock down Android app distribution in the name of security. arstechnica.com/gadgets/2026/0…
I wish you made it more clear that this only affects stock android users and not all android users. Unless something has changed since last time I checked?
@fdroidorg ah yes those 3.9 billion users who can't be bothered flashing LineageOS but are definitely hosting their own services! Look, all snark aside I appreciate the argument of potential exposure and yes I see the advantage in having for example Jami available on stock Android or even iOS but let's not pretend that installing a couple free apps will make a difference when you also have GApps TikTok Whatsap Tinder running. I'd focus on the target audience at this point
This is not a purity test, we don't want or need 100% FLOSS or "go away". No, each step, each #FLOSS app that replaces a proprietary app is a win. Just because you/me researched and were able to buy a device with an unlockable bootloader and a custom Android version available, does not mean that 3.9 billion users should be abandoned or punished.
Hey guys, I think the major concern here is that it will affect the entire Android ecosystem because this policy is targeting developers not users. How many FOSS developers would keep making apps for Android after this? Even if you are on a de-googled version of Android that won't add this restriction you still need developers to keep making apps or else you won't have anything to install/update. So there is still great cause for concern here!
@skywalker2k17 Ars please be more explicit next time! @fdroidorg are concerned because it will reduce their potential user base and thus make it harder to reach those users that don't know about libre apps but that would have been interested if they had a chance to try
@skywalker2k17 what you say is incorrect, please do a search if you don't believe me. It affects so-called "side loading" on stock android but not aosp. If you reason about it logically for a second, why would aosp devs merge in an upstream change that would in practice break the project? Re stock android, sure it reduces the ability of people to access free software but otoh on a phone that's infested with gafam apps having a couple free apps imho makes no difference
When someone says „Scientists do not want you to know“ you can dismiss everything from there on. Scientists want you to know. They are desperate that you know. They can’t shut up about what they found out and want you to know.
wait, I was told, that there are too many bees, in some regions (partly because of human-organized honey production). They are pushing other pollinators out of local ecosystems...
As for the other points, well, small Antarctic-base sized scientific settlement on Mars would be cool, but huge 2-stage rocket without high-power 3rd stage probably won't be enough for that, which was now officially admitted, after all.
The AI bubble is problem. And as for water and climate, nobody can deny this, of course.
I think it won’t be more than 10 years, before Elon Musk after his data centers in space failing, suggests that it would be better to launch humans into space so we can fit more data centers on earth…
By that time he’s already become techno-pope with his own religion, and will frame all this is ”spiritual” cultish terms, like ”expanding the light of conciousness” or similar. 🤔
Earth is not well. The promise of starting life anew somewhere far, far away—no climate change, no war,
no Twitter—beckons, and settling the stars finally seems within our grasp.
Agree... by the way, I think that a self-improving city (that is able to build other cities) on Moon or Mars cannot even be implemented now, because economy depends on so many things, one city is not enough... I think someone should study this and enlighten Elon Musk about it.
The important thing here is that we could have both a paradise on earth and space exploration. The scales have been purposely tipped by capitalists. They want us to believe that there are not enough resources for all of us to survive and flourish on our beautiful planet and to explore our wondrous universe. They hoard the wealth and watch us fight for scraps. Let's never forget that we are many and they are few.
I don't want your AI slop, I don't want your fake docuflop. I don't want your fascist state, I don't want your racist slate. I don't want you MAGA here I don't want your MAGA anywhere.
We are continuing to actively fundraise for financial support to develop a Wayland compositor for Xfce(xfwl4).
In the month of February, we have received 52 donations (Xfce: $419.61 & Xfce(EU): €634.10). To date, we have paid out $15,050 for work completed on xfwl4.
Thanks again for your generous support and ongoing donations. We are grateful for your commitment to help improve Xfce.
If you would like to help financially support the development of a new Wayland compositor for Xfce, you can do so by contributing funds via our #OpenCollective accounts.
These contributions will help pay for the funding of longtime Xfce core developer Brian Tarricone to create xfwl4, a brand-new Wayland compositor for Xfce.
Xfce is a lightweight desktop environment for UNIX-like operating systems. It aims to be fast and low on system resources, while still being visually appealing and user friendly.
We're happy to announce a long-term partnership with Motorola. We're collaborating on future devices meeting our privacy and security standards with official GrapheneOS support.
This is the best news I've heard recently. Atleast now app developers will ditch the Google Play Integrity crap and provide first class support for alternative platforms.
really hoping this is gonna be cheaper than a pixel at current prices cause that'll probably be a killer for me if a graphene OS phone costs 900 dollars
It was your point that Motorola is the partner because they want to make money. If the people are only able to buy their phones after some others already did and now resell them, I don't See how they profit. People buying the high Ende devices for Graphene may exist AS well but in WhatsApo rate
Lots of these are giving up even more security features.
> hardened_malloc, malloc-ng, or mimalloc-secure
These aren't the same classes of allocators at all. Neither the musl malloc or mimalloc is a hardened allocator. mimalloc is performance focused and musl's is focused on low memory usage.
> What are your thoughts on what to do in case the day comes that Google kills AOSP?
What about when IBM decides to kill systemd, GCC and GNOME?
@lumi @alexia The current default software stack for desktop Linux is kind of terrible and the lack of coherent threat model or proper ecosystem of sandboxed applications are major issues with desktop right now. What I am still questioning is whether it is even possible to make a proper competitor to ChromeOS (if we ignore the hardware insecurity of basically all PCs).
So example software choices: systemd -> dinit or s6 sudo -> s6-sudo (setuidless) glibc -> muslc glibc malloc or jemalloc -> hardened_malloc, malloc-ng, or mimalloc-secure (which supports more CPU architectures) bubblewrap (sandbox used by Flatpak) -> #syd (it's written in Rust, has many important exploit protections, and can even be the user login: g
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@lumi @alexia The current default software stack for desktop Linux is kind of terrible and the lack of coherent threat model or proper ecosystem of sandboxed applications are major issues with desktop right now. What I am still questioning is whether it is even possible to make a proper competitor to ChromeOS (if we ignore the hardware insecurity of basically all PCs).
So example software choices: systemd -> dinit or s6 sudo -> s6-sudo (setuidless) glibc -> muslc glibc malloc or jemalloc -> hardened_malloc, malloc-ng, or mimalloc-secure (which supports more CPU architectures) bubblewrap (sandbox used by Flatpak) -> #syd (it's written in Rust, has many important exploit protections, and can even be the user login: gitlab.exherbo.org/sydbox/sydb…) GNOME or KDE -> XFCE (when their new Rust Wayland native WM is finished) gnutils -> *BSD or uutils
The issue of course with most of these alternatives is that they are separate projects and therefore dont have the same goals, methods, or threat models. Also most of these projects are written in C which does not help at all. Also there is of course the lack of a proper chain of trust from the hardware to loading the kernel and userspace.
It may just not be reasonably possible to provide a alternative without millions of dollars of funding and a decade of development. It would be nice for there to be an alternative to AOSP/ChromeOS or even MacOS for desktop computing which actually takes security seriously. It doesnt even need to have be completely on par when it comes to security, just do better than current Linux distros (not a very high bar).
What are your thoughts on what to do in case the day comes that Google kills AOSP?
@GOKUSHRM Our partnership is Motorola is not exclusive and we're fully allowed to partner with other OEMs. However, we don't currently have the resources to partner with additional OEMs and it will likely be a while before we do.
Partnerning to make smartphones with a company which recently discontinued their smartphones doesn't sound workable. The point is also mainly getting an OEM to raise their security to meet our requirements rather than getting an OEM to sell devices with GrapheneOS.
@GOKUSHRM We're not going to lower our standards to expand device support so if they can't or won't meet the requirements then there's not much to talk about. That's why most of the smaller OEMs are ruled out because they can't afford or are at least unwilling to invest in the required security including long term updates and a high end SoC. The device itself doesn't have to be high end as a whole but the SoC needs to be high end to get long term support and the current era security features.
@GOKUSHRM SoC licensing is very expensive especially for the latest and greatest. No one really wants to use a flagship SoC in anything but a flagship device.
doing PGO on a development build (considering the guide is meant for developers) is insane IMO
that's something one would do on their final fully optimized build, not for development, and specially not if the need to debug anything in native code is there...
from what i recall in my encounters with googlers: it's pgo.
from my own experience on gentoo lto adds around 30% memory pressure and pgo adds around 50%, compile time is mostly unaffected with lto but pgo quadruples it.
meaning you could run with less memory, by reducing the amount of parallel builds, except that would make the already long 6 hour build time increase close to exponentially
This entry was edited (Tuesday, March 3, 2026, 11:15 AM)
It has a package manager and has out-of-band updates to the APEX and APK components along with separate updates for boot, vendor and system images. Most of the core userspace OS is in APEX modules now.
also keep in mind each compile thread uses memory. blender rn uses like 30 gb to compile because i'm giving it 24 threads, especially when it comes to the render kernels bit since it's a single giant file.
It's the number of logical cores which determine the number of jobs by default. In general, Android builds should have 2GB per logical core unless the number of jobs is lowered.
note that, as i mentioned on the thread before, back in 2019 i tried to build it on a 7th gen i7 (so 4/8 c/t) with 16 gigs of ram and a sata ssd, after 3 days of non-stop building, i gave up
and that was when the minimum recommendations were still 32gb of ram
@rogueren @1a5cff5118d071a2c5d46534733abb9f3dcdfc41b24db0132fc20dbf01c75f78 A large portion of the GrapheneOS hardening is device specific and having device specific builds is inherently more secure due to lower attack surface and being able to specialize the builds with features like RANDSTRUCT for each device model. Aside from that, most of their devices aren't going to be able to meet our requirements. It will initially be several flagships meeting our requirements and then more over time.
@1a5cff5118d071a2c5d46534733abb9f3dcdfc41b24db0132fc20dbf01c75f78 it'll almost certainly be specific devices just due to how ARM chips work. Every chipset needs its own special drivers, which means you can't make a universal version to run on most devices. On top of Graphene being very strict on hardware feature requirement, which was part of why Pixels were the only supported phones until now
Currently things are fine with Android but Goigle keep moving toward making Android more locked from software and apps. Is not this going to be a problem to what we have now? or there is a workaround?
Looking forward to seeing where this partnership takes the project. It's been great watching continued support of the Pixel line of phones, so throwing in an official partner organization is exciting.
I don't care if it's shit, I don't care if it's 1500€, I'm getting one. Ideally more than one if it's on the budget end. A budget Moto G at the 150€ mark with GrapheneOS would be the ultimate "if i'm under risk this is becoming a foldable".
@bill88t The initially supported ones will be expensive flagships but we do want to have budget devices eventually. It's harder to meet our update and security feature requirements for those. Look at the Motorola Signature (2026), Motorola razr ultra (2026) and Motorola razr fold (2026) for an idea of how the next gen devices will likely be. These current gen ones are way closer to our requirements than previous devices but not quite there yet.
@dalias @lumi @alexia GrapheneOS has to get huge adoption and major partnerships before we can start on our much longer term goals of moving away from using a Linux-based OS as the core operating system to a more secure platform. We want to be running the current application layer part of the OS solely via virtualization eventually. We don't expect to ever make the Linux kernel and overall model it supports on top secure enough for our goals. We'll still need the AOSP-based OS for apps.
@lumi @alexia I'm excited for GrapheneOS success for people it's for, but I fundamentally don't like the Android (AOSP, not even talking about Google) model of how basically anything works. Non-Android mobile OS options are what I want. Ones where I have full root, can run a small set of trusted apps from my distro just like I would on a laptop, and where everything else runs in an extremely restricted sandbox. I don't want those relationships inverted where a gigantic pile of Java code I could never understand or build or modify is the root of authority and I just have to trust that it's going to let me do what I want.
@lispi314 @King_of_Ooo @alexia @lumi AOSP has a far larger development community than desktop Linux. There are a huge number of both corporate and community AOSP-based projects. There's a massive community of people working on all kinds of projects related to it. Desktop Linux is assembled out of a bunch of barely maintained or developed projects with one of two developers each. It has nearly non-existent systemic work on almost anything aside from systemd gobbling up components into itself.
You'll have to explain why/how IBM owns GCC. Fairly sure it's an actual FSF project.
GNOME?
RIP lol
Other than the accessibility stuff most of it I don't care much about, and with the ensloppification going on & Red Hat apparently insisting on it, it might well die anyway.
What are your thoughts on what to do in case the day comes that Google kills AOSP?
This however has real chances of happening and already has a largely closed development process with no community.
Which means it doesn't even need a poison pill contributor agreement, all the necessary rights are probably already in Google's possession for malicious license changes.
Not to mention that the main useful part of Android, the drivers & their documentation, aren't even included anyway. Everything else could be replaced by something better with some work.
@lispi314 @King_of_Ooo @alexia @lumi systemd won not because it's good but because it actually exists as a somewhat coherent basis for an OS providing the features which are wanted. It didn't have to be a sensible or good implementation of almost anything. It's far from only an init system and the overall desktop and server ecosystems are increasing based around it. All the non-tiny desktop Linux stack ports to mobile are heavily using systemd. They're bringing systemd to mobile, not Linux.
> You know, if you're just going to avoid the question you could simply not answer that post, like you did with my mobile modem isolation question.
Don't know what you're talking about. You're one of hundreds of people.
> The overwhelming majority of the BSD tooling
It has little to do with the desktop software stack. That increasingly only has an incomplete port over to BSD with a growing amount of hacks. It would just roll it back even further.
@King_of_Ooo @alexia @lumi You know, if you're just going to avoid the question you could simply not answer that post, like you did with my mobile modem isolation question.
The overwhelming majority of the BSD tooling that isn't systemd could be ported with a modest effort if systemd died. Note that I linked daemon supervisors earlier, because session managers and init systems are a lot easier to come by.
edit: Ah, my bad, I confused the subthread. You did ignore it and replied to the prior post.
@bobkmertz @greenpete @joe9nf That was most likely the modem and in some early mobiles there was zero isolation preventing the modem from simply reading all the memory bus.
(The modem should be understood as a blackbox device at the mercy of hostile infrastructure providers & "authorities", it is attack surface.)
I would hope that such isolation is part of the GrapheneOS safety requirements.
@bobkmertz@techhub.social See grapheneos.org/faq#future-devi… for our list of requirements. Cellular modem isolation has been present on even the first device we supported (Nexus 5). It predates having proper isolation for Wi-Fi / Bluetooth.
given that Moto will have to release new devices with the support, I really hope to see something "small" - iPhone 13 Mini / SE size, for less than 1000€... One can dream.
my worry is about durability. A small debri when folding it and it's game over. I love the idea of ThinkPhone, just needs a small variant! Durable, secure and small.
If they #Motorola could add #LoRa or something similar that could be a game changer.
They would offer something that other companies don't, while there is demand from users.
It also brings privacy advantages as it makes it easier to communicate undetected from cell towers. People are starting to roll out networks covering wide areas.
In addition to that, it adds an element of resilience where people could continue to communicate even when cell towers are shut down. This is especially important during national disasters and governments overreach shutting down internet access.
Whether they'll be sold at retail with GrapheneOS preinstalled as an option isn't a question we can answer yet. It mostly comes down to Google's requirements and the extent to which those can be worked around or pushed to be relaxed.
@ferricoxide @luana No, it's a much different feature than the incomplete implementation for desktops. The entirely of the firmware and operating system are cryptographically verified with downgrade protection. The secure element is used to store the version metadata for downgrade protection for the OS and efuses are used for the firmware portion of it. It's fully integrated with the A/B update system with automatic rollback until reaching the home screen successfully.
@ferricoxide @luana It's the status quo on existing devices and has been one of the hardware requirements for GrapheneOS support for many years. Verified boot was introduced on the Nexus 5X and moved to an earlier version of the current approach with the Pixel 2. We've supported it since it was available and began considering it a requirement shortly afterwards. We only supported 2 generations of devices prior to it being available which could still be locked and had the firmware verification.
This is a premature joke for the 1. April, right? 😳🤔😂🤣
Choosing a company like Motorola with it's owner Lenovo behind it for the reasons of privacy and security isn't beyond a good idea but pure hypocrisy and a punch in the guts for all of the supporters of GrapheneOS in my opinion. 🖕
@kranzkrone GrapheneOS is a non-profit organization and no money is changing hands with Motorola. What do you think greed has to do with it? There's huge demand for us supporting an alternative to Pixels and we're doing that by working with an OEM. If you want to continue using Pixels then you can continue doing so. Google and Samsung are the only top 10 Android OEMs by sales which aren't Chinese-owned. We can't force Samsung to want to partner with us and the same applies to Sony too.
The point isn’t whether GrapheneOS receives money from Motorola.
The point is the consistency of the security and trust model you advocate! 🙄
GrapheneOS often emphasizes minimizing trust in large corporations, opaque supply chains, and potential state influence.
Yet Motorola is owned by Lenovo, a Chinese company operating under a legal environment where state access to companies can be mandated.
If the argument is that users should minimize trust and maximize verifiable security, partnering with an OEM embedded in that jurisdiction raises legitimate questions.
This isn’t about “greed” but about coherence of principles.
If Chinese OEM ownership is usually framed as a risk in privacy discussions, it seems inconsistent to dismiss those concerns when it becomes convenient for hardware support.
Criticism here isn’t hostility—it’s asking whether the same standards are being applied consistently. 😉
@kranzkrone It's quite apparent you're using an LLM to generate concern troll replies. It's incoherent and lacks actual substance. We're not going to be interacting with a text generator someone has directed to waste our time and energy.
If you don't want us banning your instance and making a public post asking everyone else to do the same then remove both of these AI generated replies and stop bothering us.
Here's our policy on AI generated content for discussions:
It's indeed quite apparent that you acting out in the same way like you did in the past when the founder of GrapheneOS had a personal dispute with another somewhat prominent personality of the tech world.
If you don't want me to further investigate your toxic behavior of communication and try to framing me as the bad one, you should definitely thread lightly.
Threatening me with whatever action won't result in deleting my previous posts but instead will strengthen my personal investment in further interactions and maybe legal actions.
Louis Rossmann may would find this interesting to read too.
@kranzkrone You've moved on from posting low quality concern trolling which appears to be at least partially generated by an LLM to blatant libel and support for harassment. We haven't framed you for anything. Your replies to our thread make it clear what you're doing.
Louis Rossmann orchestrated harassment towards our founder by making many extraordinarily dishonest claims in a video where he engaged in blatant bullying. Rossmann is openly a Kiwi Farms user and is the one who involved them.
@indigoamber It has to start with those because they'll be the first meeting our update and security feature requirements. Lower end devices can gradually be supported as the improved updates and security features trickle down to those.
If I may ask, as various sources say otherwise. Will there be one dedicated model with GrapheneOS out of the box, and will the rest of the models be hardware-ready for installing this system? Or is hardware support and manual installation the only option?
@lispi314 There's a *big* difference between "sloppy security that eventually gets pwned" and "deliberately backdoored by a nation-state for the purpose of domestic mass surveillance" @GrapheneOS @publicvoit @a53bdb @lunareclipse
@publicvoit @JamesDBartlett3 @lispi314 @a53bdb @lunareclipse People have different opinions. We're going to work with Motorola to meet all of our security requirements and improve security beyond that. They're helping us with providing GrapheneOS support for their devices rather than us having to do the work ourselves. They may end up contributing more to GrapheneOS beyond that too. In the future, we can work with other OEMs. It's not an exclusive partnership but we have limited resources.
@libresoftwarelover The phones will be available in Brazil at least to install the OS yourself. We aren't sure about the availability of devices with it preinstalled yet since it's very early and we don't know which barriers may come up for that and whether it could launch in some regions but not others.
since the bootloader will trust the grapheneos keys I can't imagine why would safetynet and the other play protect mechanisms won't pass attestation (for all intents and purposes graphene would be indistinguishable from the stock Motorola image)
if that's the case I'll buy the device the moment it comes out...
@dzervas It's not going to change anything about the Play Integrity API which would be an entirely different thing. It should be able to have a green boot state (not necessarily immediate at launch) but that doesn't mean that Google Play is going to allow it because we won't have an allowlisted build fingerprint.
@dzervas Potentially but it's not something we want to bring up right now rather than focusing on adding GrapheneOS support, meeting our hardware requirements and getting some additional security features implemented. The main way they could eventually help is getting app developers to add support for using GrapheneOS either by removing the Play Integrity API (idealy) or adding hardware-based attestation permitting GrapheneOS as a replacement or alternative to the Play Integrity API.
@NewDay14 @Cambion @a53bdb Motorola contacted us about working together and we enthusiastically pursued it. We would do the same if Samsung wanted to work with us. Our Motorola partnership is explicitly a non-exclusive contract. There would need to be another company wanting to work with us and capable of meeting our requirements for there to be another partnership though.
@Cambion @a53bdb Samsung is the best company when it comes to independence. Samsung produces their displays, batteries, cameras, and processors in South Korea mainly. If the goal is to minimize dependency on China and the US while still obtaining high-quality products, Samsung is the clear leader in that field. However, they are likely so large that they wouldn't be interested in a partnership.
@NewDay14 @a53bdb Many off the important parts are still made in China before it's shipped to other places the phones are made. There is no going around that. Beside, Vietnam is not much different when it comes to this...
@a53bdb To be fair, all phones are made there so that risk always exists anyway.
As long as GrapheneOS doesn't slack on their requirements including (but not limited to) being able to access low level stuff it shouldn't be much worse if you flash the phone yourself. And those kind of requirements are why Pixels where the only ones supported to begin with...
Will the 'ready for' (desktop mode) function work? This is a Motorola feature that I wouldn't want to lose after flashing the ROM. I once bought a Motorola specifically for this function.
@joonq @a53bdb Sorry, but despite US offices and staff, the company is 100% Chinese.
Here is why: -> Acquisition: Bought Motorola from Google in 2014 for $2.91B. -> Headquarters: Global HQ is in Beijing. -> Shareholders: Parent company Legend Holdings is Chinese. -> Leadership: CEO Yang Yuanqing is Chinese. -> Origins: Born from a state-owned research institute.
What might be cause for concern is if the ‘blond’ driving the world crazy were to target Motorola or Lenovo, causing them to pull out of the US market, or if, like Huawei, they were to have Android stripped away from them. At that point, they might decide on one of two things: either ‘steal’ the GrapheneOS technology, or strengthen their partnership with Graphene and make Graphene the primary software for Motorola/Lenovo. It could be an interesting development, but I imagine it would be stressful for the creators of Graphene
@FynnND Both iPhones and Pixels have official battery replacement kits available along with it being relatively straightforward for the most recent generations of each. You can already use GrapheneOS on a Pixel today.
Fairphones lack crucial standard privacy and security patches/protections. They're incredibly far from meeting our requirements. Fairphones aren't a serious option if you care about privacy and lack basic safety due to lack of kernel updates, etc.
thoughts on what Motorola was doing with the affiliate link injection or their TOS saying you can’t sell a phone you bought if you unlock the boot-loader and install a different OS?
This entry was edited (Thursday, May 28, 2026, 6:36 PM)
@top It wasn't authorized by them and appears to have been a supply chain attack from a company doing contracting work for them. It was quickly disabled via some kind of update
GrapheneOS won't be using any of their apps and services. GrapheneOS also won't be using their regular vendor code and vendor SELinux policy but rather a more stripped down version close to the standard Qualcomm SDK with the extra drivers, etc. needed on top of that added. It will have less nonsense than with Pixels.
"I was born in an Iranian prison. My parents were held in their jails. My uncles lie in their mass graves. Nothing you can tell me about the crimes of the Iranian regime that I haven’t lived in blood and bone. That doesn’t mean I want my people bombed, maimed, killed, their homes in ruins. If your vision of liberation comes only through the destruction of innocent lives, then it’s not freedom you’re after.”
"PK: We have both been anti-war voices (as well as anti-sanctions) and also voices of pro-Palestinian solidarity for ages now. Can you talk about what that means in this moment?
SD: I feel that this is happening now—that the war has come to Iran—because we didn’t fight hard enough for Gaza, for Palestine. We didn’t stand tall enough. We didn’t risk enough. And I include myself in that. I didn’t do enough. I didn’t speak loud enough against the utter injustice that is waged against the Palestinian people.
That silence—ours and the world’s—has emboldened Israel to act with total impunity. It struck Lebanon, Yemen, Syria. No one said anything. It actively starves people, kills them as they wait for food, and still the international community says nothing.
Never has it been clearer to me now: we the people of the MENA region are completely on our own. And we will not survive this hell unless we unite, unless we truly see and hear one another, unless we fight for each other. Not only against war but against e
... Show more...
"PK: We have both been anti-war voices (as well as anti-sanctions) and also voices of pro-Palestinian solidarity for ages now. Can you talk about what that means in this moment?
SD: I feel that this is happening now—that the war has come to Iran—because we didn’t fight hard enough for Gaza, for Palestine. We didn’t stand tall enough. We didn’t risk enough. And I include myself in that. I didn’t do enough. I didn’t speak loud enough against the utter injustice that is waged against the Palestinian people.
That silence—ours and the world’s—has emboldened Israel to act with total impunity. It struck Lebanon, Yemen, Syria. No one said anything. It actively starves people, kills them as they wait for food, and still the international community says nothing.
Never has it been clearer to me now: we the people of the MENA region are completely on our own. And we will not survive this hell unless we unite, unless we truly see and hear one another, unless we fight for each other. Not only against war but against every last trace of fascist dictatorial rule that has brought ruin upon us and our lands. No one will bring us salvation. Only we can."
Of course, the right wing would cringe at the concept of freedom being real anyway. Their world only accepts a narrative that everyone is out for themselves, and that freedom is a lie told by those seeking only power for themselves. Which they do, every damn day.
This entry was edited (Sunday, March 1, 2026, 6:53 PM)
If there was any indication at all that Trump and Netanyahu were in this to help the Iranian people in any way, there could be a meaningful conversation about whether the means were justified or appropriate. But that is not why these men are in this fight.
He ticked off the box in front "war" to get more support at home.
At the same time he is arguing that the same war that is supposed to raise support for #Trumpregime is supposed to weaken support for the Iranian regime. While it might weaken it because of the couple of bombs it will almost certainly push all non strict opposition citizens into a more "patriotic" pro regime mood. America the Big Satan. Self introspection is not a core American value
to be any one of those things and more, depending on my prevailing energy/focus here/mood ... that's the beauty -- if frustration at the time it takes -- of being your own algo-creator.
Boosts are appreciated so the poll has more chance to find the outer reaches of our fedi universe.
Tom DB 🦣
in reply to Greenpeace International • • •Emil Jacobs - Collectifission
in reply to Greenpeace International • • •Bill Halcyon
in reply to Greenpeace International • • •ꙮ 𝄃𝄁𝄂𝄀𝄀𝄁𝄃🇫🇯🇱🇨🇱🇧
in reply to Greenpeace International • • •Raven Luni
in reply to Greenpeace International • • •kolya
in reply to Greenpeace International • • •Edelruth, PBS Passport Holder
in reply to Greenpeace International • • •notthatkindofdoctor
in reply to Greenpeace International • • •jaj
in reply to Greenpeace International • • •mr brown
in reply to Greenpeace International • • •that one got stuck in Suez, have you forgotten? also it can get stuck in Malacca.
just in case you missed what happens around Taiwan
so naive 😉
KIP/JΛYCHØU ⁂
in reply to Greenpeace International • • •Estarriol, Terrorist Dragon
in reply to Greenpeace International • • •