A surprise collab just happened.
itsfoss.com/news/motorola-grap…
#privacy #opensource #grapheneos
You won't need to pay Google for using GrapheneOS soon.Sourav Rudra (It's FOSS)
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I'd turn that into a teachable moment.
''If someone resorts to violence that means someone was too stupid to accept being told "no".''
Qp @Natasha_Jay does not feel like the original panel and it makes me furious
(Probably because it feels like a betrayal of Watterson's work)
I will apologize if it's the original panel but i'm not at home to check.
thinking out loud but it appears that there is no consensus on what the world's problems actually are.
Some countries might start wars to protect their grip on power, be it it's influence, treasury, or fear to be overrun by competing nations.
Some regimes want to protect a certain way of life, and view outside influence as a corrupting factor. Wealthier and more powerful societies can project culture that overwhelms local traditions.
Much of it seems to revolve around fear.
There are a lot of reasons for the downfall of the #USA but a big one is the purchase of traditional #media by plutocrat goons
Look at this fucking shit:
EDIT: some people are angry that i am potentially misleading because this isn't a recent headline. i am trying to make a point about the decay of traditional media and our current state of things. but yes, this is is from 2014, after #bezos bought WaPo. my point still stands, and you should follow my account for commentary, not breaking news
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War is a racket. It always has been.
yes, it's not recent
i'm thinking of editing my post to indicate that
but i don't think it's that big of a deal
the point i make is true. it is also true the headline isn't current. i don't know. i'm not disturbed by what you're saying, nor that there is an indication it's recent, nor that i'm misleading anyone
@jamesmarshall I don't blame you for not wanting to go to their site. Here's an archive.ph link: archive.ph/Uiu60
The author apparently is one Ian Morris claiming to be a professor at Stanford (I don't even have to look up this person's history to learn they were born into privilege do I?)
Interestingly this was written back in 2014 apparently. They were also running hit pieces against Obama. 🙄 I didn't realize they were this bad even that long ago.
Hey, he's got a point. Wars are the one reliable reason to extract and recirculate wealth hoarded by sillionaires that they're relatively powerless to lobby agains, and this recirculation of stagnant wealth can, indeed, make everybody richer.
Of course, we could be even safer and richer if we recirculated the stagnant money without having any wars.
Published in 2014 already: washingtonpost.com/opinions/in…
I would be curious to see if they are still publishing such pieces (although I suppose the answer is yes).
is it really that big of a deal?
the point i am making is true. that it isn't recent doesn't change that. but i suppose there is an expectation that my account is a breaking news account?
Armin, Paul: if you want to unfollow me, that's fine. i believe you're holding me to expectations which are unfair on flimsy grounds
that someone makes a point with their account, if it is true or not. not that they are paid reporters. obviously i am not
Same for me. It changes from 'oversight' to 'deliberate misinformation'.
From now on, I will be more cautious.
I indeed concluded that because on my PC browser, the date is above the picture.
You might be right (I hope so).
To my regret, but, as you demonstrate, the picture seems to be manipulated by removing the date,, from now on I will be more cautious when I see posts from Ben.
You are very right, this post is from April 25, 2014, More than 11 years ago.
I hope that it is an oversight from Ben Royce, but otherwise it is very disappointing.
@paulschoe @Linkshaender @NatureMC
right. because i'm not a paid reporter. nothing i said was untrue. i was making a point. you're acting like you bought a newspaper and found out the reporter lied. it's a little overdramatic on your part don't you think?
@NatureMC @Linkshaender @paulschoe
and why did you ever not do that, if it's so important to you
i feel like i am being roped into a newsroom, as if i am paid reporter. none of which i am
Wars do make some richer and are an excellent way to stimulate the economy (when the war is sufficiently far away, obviously).
The USA figured this out in the middle of the great depression just before deciding to join WWII, and has been fighting wars ever since. The rest of the world isn’t particularly happy about it.
yes, after bezos bought the paper
then unfollow me
and fuck off
is anything untrue?
no
everyone's always getting so fucking upset about the wrong things. i just don't fucking care anymore. it's always so overwrought and dramatic on the fucking fediverse. we're going to hell in a handbasket, and that seems to me to be the bigger problem
@nrmacdonald @NatureMC @Linkshaender @paulschoe
it is. are you paying me? no. so like i said, fuck off
sorry for my grave grave crime
what a fucking joke
Attached: 1 image You will starve for your "defence"... #warmongers #FuckWarmongers #Eu #EUpol #ClassWar #NoWarButClassWarProletarian Rage (Todon.nl)
there's a lot of people angry about this is the comments. i'm thinking of editing it, but at the same time i'm somewhat unimpressed with the idea that i'm misleading anyone. it's a real headline
but old
No, I don't have this expectation at all.
I'm just a follower who appreciates your posts, thoughts, and opinions very much - you are one of the most inspiring accounts here. I appreciate you debates with facts and respect.
Exactly *therefore* I want to trust your posts. The problem is social media: more and more posts on Mastodon come without sources or arbitrarily glued together for effect only. So I want to get the facts, be sure that what I could boost
all 4 of you:
i edited my comment on the basis of your complaints
but i would really like it if all 4 of you unfollowed me
because fuck you
endless nitpicking on the fediverse is driving me fucking bonkers
i'm not a fucking news outlet. i am making commentary. this is a real article. my comment is valid
i am not working for you in the news room, to be criticized on the basis of breaking news journalistic integrity
it's a fucking joke
🖕🖕🖕
War is a failure of statecraft Ο πόλεμος είναι αποτέλεσμα της πολιτικής ανικανότητας Why peace is always justification for violence? ArcaneFou (kafeneio)
And thank you very much for the edit, now it's clear! 😊 (BTW, I wasn't angry).
@NatureMC @Linkshaender @paulschoe
i don't care
endless endless endless endless nitpicking on the fediverse is beginning to really piss me off
It's a pity, I thought we could have a rational discussion. However, I shall comply. Perhaps you should also stop following me to be consequent? 😉 (This is now truly kindergarden level, a real pity.)
And now we are writing 100 times "fuck" in every combination we can find. 🤓 🤡
already unfollowed
all 4 of you
need to get the nattering nitpicking off my fucking back
i don't owe you shit
you have high standards, you follow those in who you follow
someone disappoints you?
fine, unfollow
don't fucking lecture me like i fucking owe you something, on the basis of overwrought nitpicky bullshit
the article is real. my commentary is valid
apparently not good enough
because you pay me?
FUCK YOU
@nrmacdonald @NatureMC @Linkshaender @paulschoe
then don't act like i owe you, on the basis of nitpicky bullshit, asshole
apparently i was
pick pick pick pick
i'm so glad nattering nitpickers know what is really important in life
you're a big help to the world. of such great service. i don't know how we could go on with out you
thank you
it's just reached a boiling point for me, apologies for my temper
i might have been too hard on these 4 but i CANNOT STAND this endless nitpicking on the fediverse. i just can't deal with it anymore, i'm just going to start severing connections
they apparently believe they are helping?
they just drive everyone insane
Sure, let's have another holocaust, think about the medical advances 🤡
Actually, let's make it bigger for bigger advances, let's make it so big nobody survives, that should give us maximum advances
grow the fuck up?
ok
i won't pick pick pick pick at people on some lame personal need, like they owe me, on the basis of a "grave concern" which isn't shit
i will indeed grow up like that
thanks for your wise advice
remember laffy?
it's these sort of assholes that drove them away
Hello Ben
I agree with Petra:
'I'm just a follower who appreciates your posts, thoughts, and opinions very much - you are one of the most inspiring accounts here. I appreciate you debates with facts and respect.'
The picture looked manipulated. That was a shock because I take your posts for gospel.
If you had not built a good reputation, I would not have reacted, but since it was you, and assuming that the picture was modified, I was more than surprised.
i edited my top comment as you desired
i forced you to unfollow, i unfollowed you
FUCK OFF WITH THE ENDLESS FUCKING NITPICKING
IT JUST DRIVES PEOPLE AWAY
you're driving me insane
FUCK YOU
i will from now on sever all connections with overcontrolling nitpicky busybody accounts
unread
uninterested
you and i are done
bye asshole
the endless nitpicking is driving me INSANE
that's the anger
i do need to tone it down, i don't want to go off the deep end like that
i just blew my top
what's the acceptable amount of blowing one's top? once a month? 10 times a day? 😆
i liked laffy. but i also didn't comment much on their posts either, otherwise maybe i would have fallen afoul of the banhammer as well
that's why i'm talking about toning down my anger
i think what happens is valid things annoy you... then it builds and then every little fucking thing annoys you, things that aren't a problem, then boom
i don't want to do that
social media is good and bad in many ways. you have to control how you interact with it, or it controls you
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@invadersil But wouldn't it be perfectly in line with the Madman Theory for the proprietor of Pravda Socia tol resolve a falling-out with Darth Melon and with the ghosts of ajatollahs past alike by offering Xitter to Iran as a war reparation?
it's worse. the headline says war, but it's about genocide:
"If only the Roman Empire could have been created without killing millions of Gauls and Greeks, if the United States could have been built without killing millions of Native Americans, if these and countless conflicts could have been resolved by discussion instead of force. But this did not happen. People almost never give up their freedoms — including, at times, the right to kill and impoverish one another — unless forced"
I generally run some news video while I cook, and sometimes eat if I'm hungry enough for it not to make me sick, Reuters, PBSNewsHour, Al Jazeera (English), sometimes deeper dives. Tonight it was Reuters, They actually ran Kegsbreath's speech (right in line with this graphic). You know it's bad when there's no commentary, as if there's no response to cover, and even the fighting Irish can't think of anything to say.
There are alternatives, and they all have different personalities.
There was one big story, I've forgotten which :/, recently that was picked up by NPR and PBS from a Substack writer. Part of what's bad is too many journalism scholarships no longer exist because the degree just gets you a sycophant's job that pays enough to payoff the remaining $100K kids had to take in loans. No one wants to subsidize that, while grads still can't pay rent and take the risk to go truly independent, so they don't.
We need, need, need affordable housing.
Why is there always enough money for MORE BOMBS
and never enough for school meals, healthcare, or to protect people from climate disasters?
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Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.Edward Younger (YouTube)
There's nothing controversial about E2EE.
Unless you think it's controversial for private conversations to be.... private?
bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly2m5…
TikTok tells the BBC it won't join rival platforms such as WhatsApp and Messenger in using end-to-end encryption.Joe Tidy (BBC News)
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Can't think of a government that wouldn't think that private conversations being private is controversial.
From the article itself:
"But the company has now told the BBC it believes the technology prevents police and safety teams from being able to read direct messages if they needed to."
This is the truth. But it is also part of the point of E2EE. And why governments hate it.
Understanding Watts, Amps, and Volts to create your power system
videos.trom.tf/w/265yxNqkgvsdD…
In this video I explain how easy it is to understand a power system for your motorhome. How to create new connections, what cables to use, and how to do it safely.
#motorhome #camper #vanlife #travel #powersystem #spain
Understanding Watts, Amps, and Volts to create your power system
In this video I explain how easy it is to understand a power system for your motorhome. How to create new connections, what cables to use, and how to do it safely.
That is great and frustrating at the same time. This "enshitification" is totally a natural result of trading stuff. There is 0 difference between supermarkets putting a 5.99 price on food, or putting candies where people stay in line to pay, or deceiving people with those old ads on TV, and Facebook, Youtube and the like adding clickable ads in the middle of a video or making it play the next video automatically, or not making it clear what is a post what is an ad....
These are trade-based goods and services, and for them to sell, you have to engage in these "marketing" practices.
THIS IS NOTHING NEW!
Pretty much all companies and individuals do these in order to sell shit. All need to be biased towards their own business. Even the local small businesses are doing it. Everyone does it.
So instead of selecting a few of the most outrageous practices, call them shitty, and point the finger at them, better do 2 things:
Makes no sense.
We made a book all about that - tromsite.com/trombooks/#flipbo… and guess what? It is trade-free. Read it online or download it.
Side note....I like Louis but for fucks sake man start prioritizing a Peertube instance and post there rather than on the "shit" youtube....
#enshitfication #trade #trade-free #facebook #youtube #ads
Norwegian Government comes out swinging on enshittificationyoutube.com/watch?v=ii-D9LaitU…
That video was so genuinely funny I was laughing my ass off 🤣 Truly refreshing to see something like this in this day and age. And I gotta say the Norwegian government is pretty badass for doing this! Let's hope more governments follow suit 🤞
Norwegian Government comes out swinging on enshittification
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.Louis Rossmann (YouTube)
> Pretty much all companies and individuals do these in order to see shit.
I think you meant to type "sell shit" here.
Tio likes this.
Norwegian Government comes out swinging on enshittification
youtube.com/watch?v=ii-D9LaitU…
That video was so genuinely funny I was laughing my ass off 🤣 Truly refreshing to see something like this in this day and age. And I gotta say the Norwegian government is pretty badass for doing this! Let's hope more governments follow suit 🤞
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.Louis Rossmann (YouTube)
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Complete this sentence:
"I experience #fediverse as a .."
#Poll #AskFedi #Microblogging #Mastodon #ActivityPub
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@maikel this is a very cool and relevant direction that explores new social networking use cases and areas, and where reflecting deeply on the social side of the equation will probably pay good divident when it comes to implementing the supportive technical side.
I posted the other day about the social networking direction I am most interested about, which requires healthy ecosystem and inclusive commons based collaboration.
social.coop/@smallcircles/1161…
SX considers your applied research area to be exploring the Personal social networking paradigm, which in a more general sense also facilitate the notion of what it means to be "working in commons" on things that are "commons based".
Trust and safety are major concerns, I gather. I am not sure what is the status today, but the Open Hospitality Network at one point was investigating an ActivityPub based platform similar to CouchSurfing, where these aspects were also of key importance. @mariha hosts this community.
So the area where my plans go I call "Residential social networking", geo-fenced but inter-connected social networking circles that cover a city, town, or rural area, and which enable their residents to not only create content on the network, but the dynamic apps and services based on local needs that exist in the area. The intent of a residential social network is to engage people *offline* and in activities that support the local economy. Or rather strengthens the Circles of Sustainability in SX terminology:coding.social/blog/reimagine-s…
And all this should be a relatively low-code affair, directly accessible already for a first-time dev. This requires having a mature open standards based healthy technology foundation and thriving ecosystem.
I am a developer, though with rusty coding skills these days, and I might have started a fedi app design in 2018 or so. But this would not have led to the desired outcome, just throw one more app-centric software in the mix.
How We Reimagine the Social Web
We find novel ways to collaborate and create value together.Social coding commons
I call thinking about how people would experience such a network and taking their needs in account to be examples of Personal social networking in a new paradigm that differs to how we now think about social media (which is in a very technical sense characterized by "people are users").
coding.social/blog/reimagine-s…
We find novel ways to collaborate and create value together.Social coding commons
On that last bit..
"If as a developer you call your people users, you just lost the first battle of a great solution design."
-- Some dude on the fediverse 😅
Well, there are a couple of potential negative connotations to the word user. First, "user" was frequently used in the 90's for the customers that purchased some software products.
Then there is also the connotation of "drug" users.
Maybe the Fediverse is better thought of as groups of participants in communities that may or may not overlap.
first it was about LGBTQ+, then I started to think about autistics, adhd, neurodivergencies, then about BAME.
Most of it, mimics algorithms I have already in my head about minimising the cost of a UK Nat Rep survey (e.g.: the more rare a participant is, the more expensive it becomes in e.g: Cint) for a previous job.
But each layer has to be carefully thought to be the most respectful and inclusive possible.
(part of why I'm preparing for a psychology degree to get some specialisation into Social Psychology).
The goal is, a dating / support app (the fact it is both things is key) where you can find people ....
Sensitive content
No, I love ghosts, they have the coolest stories, and I don't have to deal with those pesky living people with their racism and their hate.
I also love villages, they're livable, they're walkable and the only real problem is being stuck out in the middle of nowhere, and that downside doesn't really apply online.
And bustling: Every place is full of people I want to hear from.
I don't have the time to hear from all of them, but that's just the FOMO speaking.
I am especially annoyed by this practice of referring to companies and people you don't like by dysphemisms, as if saying their real name would summon them like Candyman. Thus "the orange site" instead of Hackernews, "the bird site" instead of Twitter, etc.
I suspect this might have had some utility on Twitter or other corporate media sites, where bot armies would search for a name so they could brigade anyone who disparaged their favorite site or person. But here it's just annoying, and, as you point out, plays hell with filters.
happy to read this also
Well, let's try to cross more often the ocean then to join your social village-like (i understand "good-will-and-possibly-kind") communitieS
@unattributed exactly.
I practiced myself in avoidance of the term, and found that to be refreshing and lending a different perspective.
"Users" carries an aspect of depersonalization, but also implies an ownership relationship that creeps into the developers thinking, and even where the noble ones say "I serve MY users" it has consequences to the entire dynamics around software dynamics, and how the solution deliverable is able to serve the needs of different stakeholder groups.
Social experience design focusses on needs-based development and starts to consider problem statements first for all identified stakeholders in the solution delivery process.
🫧 socialcoding.. reshared this.
Note that once you are conditioned to avoid the term "User" after a full career of addictive use of the word in that dev context, you start to notice how weird and awkward it really is.
You don't notice that while still addicted to your daily dose of saying "user" in broad generalization and technical abstraction. Devs think it is practical to use the word, pragmatic. But it is not. It is a technical word, and the use is similar to when a dev says "JSON" for instance. It is depersonalized, and that depersonalization seeps deep into the codebase over time. It is a word that anchors devs in the technosphere and keeps them there.
🫧 socialcoding.. reshared this.
Een sidestep.. Het valt me op dat bijna niemand op de fediverse meer boost. Een boost is een schaars goed, en op zich is dat een gunstige ontwikkeling die aansluit bi het Personal social networking paradigma van SX. Maar voor orgs en mensen die een goede boodschap willen overdragen naar een groter publiek, zoals ook CEDO, is het geen goede zaak. Er moet een goede balans zijn, waarbij ook non-profits en actie groepen het gevoel hebben nut te behalen dmv campagnes i.p.v. tijdrovende friend-of-a-friend netwerk opbouw.
coding.social/blog/reimagine-s…
#SX #SocialCoding #SocialWeb #CEDO
We find novel ways to collaborate and create value together.Social coding commons
🫧 socialcoding.. reshared this.
That is a nice thing the fediverse offers. Note that if you enter a descriptive email in your account registration, or talk about personal matters in fedi direct messages, then technically you are pseudonymous as the instance admins have access to that information if they wish to.
🫧 socialcoding.. reshared this.
kudos for your reply-reply stamina!
I keep retuning 
to be any one of those things and more, depending on my prevailing energy/focus here/mood ... that's the beauty -- if frustration at the time it takes -- of being your own algo-creator.
[edit] -- notices "Automated" in the profile. Wonders ... HOW automated !!?
Thank you!
An insight of this thread, also indicated in your post, is that everyone creates their own social experience and can foster good habits to improve it. Fediverse allows us to do that. It enables us to be more social online and improve our 'cyberspace' cultures. A paradigm shift towards Personal social networking.
coding.social/blog/reimagine-s…
PS. It is really me, a person formally known as @humanetech at mastodon social. The 'automated' indicator was first of all a tease (a hedonic driver), but also the intent to use this account as an organization channel for Social coding commons, operated by a group of people. Which didn't happen thus far. Things move slow, and time moves fast. There's no automation, just plain masto web UI and me typing :)
That said, given the huge disruption we face today with AI et al, much more pondering of the risk and impact are in order, than the random firings of complaints into the ether I see so often. See:
social.coop/@smallcircles/1161…
We find novel ways to collaborate and create value together.Social coding commons
Whatever we think of #AI / #LLM mad hype cycle, we have to deal with its rushed and inhumane dumping of the technology into global human society.#CALMculture is a strategic approach to that allows activist voices to have the most impact in dealing with the dangers of disruptive technology introductions, and focuses beyond berating people and demanding sacrifice ("don't use, or else.."), to creating a process that helps win people over and work together on best outcomes and in direction of solutions.
#CALM stands for Constructive activism-led movements, such as Social coding commons. Coding is social, and #SocialCoding the holistic approach to ensure that.
Social coding commons evolves Social experience design or #SX, solution development for grassroots movements, supported by the #SocialWeb.
In the thread below I copied a post to #Gleam's community with a suggestion to ponder about best outcomes from current and ongoing AI disruption, and deal with risks.
discuss.coding.social/t/calm-c…
CALM culture to ensure best outcomes to AI disruption
I posted a Question topic “Ensuring best outcomes from AI disruption” to the Gleam community. I shall copy the text below … As an activist with a strategic mindset I note how so much activism that is out there is very haphazard, inefficient, and m…Discuss Social Coding
@z428
Yes, a nice depiction. An intricate social networking landscape is shaping up, where our social graphs fan out to interact in many different social settings and contexts. Lovely, thank you.
@z428 yes, this is the focus area of Social experience experience design, which takes on the challenge of overcoming the wicked challenge of cocreation at scale in "herding of cats" grassroots environments, where regular top-down forms of organization and governance like community-building are doomed to fail.
We reimagine the social web and cocreate a peopleverse.Social coding commons
What would be an alternative to the word User?
In my dayjob we have Organizations aka "Customers" with groups of "Users" who use our service for their journalistic work.
When speaking in a general sense, you can substitute with people, person, human. "The user" becomes "the person", and "user-centric" becomes human-centric or people-centric, whatever fits best in context.
More interesting when not just defaulting to saying "user", is asking the question: Whom are we serving with our software? Who is the audience, who are stakeholders and stakeholder groups that have Needs that must be addressed by our solution?
"Joyful creation", the SX formula that envisions cocreation at scale supported by the social web, discerns between Creators and Clients stakeholder groups. If we apply this formula to Software develpment, then creator might be a Dev, but also Tester, Technical writer, etc. People switch stakeholder hats: A dev being client of an upstream project.
In your case you may have Journalists in a News Media domain. And that "Customer" stakeholder name, may indicate a Sales domain. Or may be a stakeholder group, really.
@draNgNon thanks, some very good food for thought.
I think the crucial point is that we do not know and do not offer proper ways to deal with different modes of communication, esp. if the only medium channel constitutes a stream of sticky notes, such as we have here in this #microblogging space.
On the first point, when is something an #EchoChamber vs. a healthy interest area, I think depends how well one is able to cross the 'membranes' of all the various social contexts and information spaces one navigates online, as it were.
There should be a place for 'influencing' to an extent if only to reach your crowd and build community and such. But all in balance and proportion and clear social context preferably. Non-profits and #activist groups want to influence, we may want to be informed.
To the last point. There's urgency to address the dark world situation, and either organize or lose. #SX defines #CALMculture as a way to engage in constructive #activism..
social.coop/@smallcircles/1161…
@maikel that is a great list of points. I won't boost, or you get more of what you don't want, but you might consider filing a fediverse idea..codeberg.org/fediverse/fediver…
Some of these can be mitigated by nurturing cultural habits.
> 6. The worst one: people use other names instead to call them so filters don't work.
This one in particular. Besides references to toxic people you see it too with folks saying Gaggle, GMAFIA, Farcebook, etc.
Often these names are used in someone's "activism package", but using them is imho more performative to an existing in-group than that they constructively appeal to others and persuade them to join the good cause.
I posted something related to this today. See CALM culture in..
The acronym also litterally means that our social media culture becomes calmer, and there's better separation to where there's activism, and where the natural talk of the town.
social.coop/@smallcircles/1161…
Whatever we think of #AI / #LLM mad hype cycle, we have to deal with its rushed and inhumane dumping of the technology into global human society.
#CALMculture is a strategic approach to that allows activist voices to have the most impact in dealing with the dangers of disruptive technology introductions, and focuses beyond berating people and demanding sacrifice ("don't use, or else.."), to creating a process that helps win people over and work together on best outcomes and in direction of solutions.#CALM stands for Constructive activism-led movements, such as Social coding commons. Coding is social, and #SocialCoding the holistic approach to ensure that.
Social coding commons evolves Social experience design or #SX, solution development for grassroots movements, supported by the #SocialWeb.
In the thread below I copied a post to #Gleam's community with a suggestion to ponder about best outcomes from current and ongoing AI disruption, and deal with risks.
your question is a cognitive dissonance for me.
Firstly, I've only ever experienced Google+ circles in an environment where the participants are similar to LinkedIn, posting about professional topics and/or corporate syncophacy. They are a good way to seal yourself into an echo chamber/bubble, even within that type of discourse
Secondly, influencer social media always feels more like people pitching their point of view or hot take or maybe just themselves. It's about collecting follower count for credibility. Fedi mostly isn't like that but there are some.
Lastly, I'm in the US, right now with political situation there is necessarily disruption and shouting and points to be made. (Some of them might even be correct!). But it does affect social media experience; it would probably make matters worse to increase the echo chamber effects.
Other: loosely-bound meta-network of more tightly-bound community or topical networks.
I *describe my experience* using all kinds of analogies such as the other options in this poll.
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That is a good, more matter of fact characterization to all the analogies indeed. Thank you.
What I particularly like in your definition, is that it makes clear that "fediverse" by itself indicates a pure technosphere. It enables social communication, and merely facilitates it. What people do on that channel, the way they communicate and how they interact with others then determines the social experience.
SX starts to consider a social experience from the most personal perspective, where a person has individual needs wrt their online participation. Then using the "Pyramid of perspective" this scale up to consider inter-personal relationships, and at the top of the pyramid and at the largest scale we shape the constructs of society together.
(Note that SX is a universal solution development methodology, even though it starts with a focus on social web and software development.)
See also: coding.social/blog/reimagine-s…
We find novel ways to collaborate and create value together.Social coding commons
Awesome!
I hope my response didn't come off snarky, as that wasn't how I meant it - at worst I intended to be a bit pedantic. And relatable analogies are *always* at my fingertips when talking to the inexperienced or "non-tech" social network users, for sure.
But *eventually* we need to draw people in to a little more media- and tech-literate understanding.
I'm bookmarking your blog post, thanks - this is a topic in my current academic modules and my hoped-for masters capstone
@johannab No, not at all snarky. 💕
What is so interesting is to discern between the technical and social, and I think that most people have a very functional-technical perspective of what it means to communicate online, so to say. Consider it merely as extra channels to interact with others, more choice to connect.
But of course our online social network is much more than merely a channel, and we have to 'project our social' somehow over these thin copper and fiberglass wires, while we try to make sense and interpret the social signals that come from other remote places.
I think we underestimate the impact of communicating online, and the narrow 'social bandwidth' that our current networking tools support. Then we translate online situations to how we would behave offline and get wrong expectations, misconceptions, and subequenctly miscommunications.
We are still all youngers online, still all learning the ropes, while we do social networking offline for 1,000's of years already.
🫧 socialcoding.. reshared this.
@johannab I for my part are very happy you find this interesting. Addressing the social side is not the most popular among developer-heavy crowds :)
Feel welcome to participate in our matrix channels or forum. The latter serves as a note-taking tool, or - under SX definition - as a commons based prosperity vault, aggregating value over time as people leave their 2 cents.
Note the SX Mindfulness principle of Social coding commons.. the movement moves, or it pauses awaiting value aggregation by the next participant. Timeless. Everything hinges on proactive participation (and on the basis of intrinsic motivation following Hedonic peer production principles).
I am mentioning, as at the moment the movement is slow-moving, since I am looking for income to sustain my work in the commons. In other words I must let the SX Sustainability principle prevail now :)
Here a link to the core principles of Social experience design:
coding.social/blog/reimagine-s…
#SX #SocialCoding #SocialWeb #ActivityPub
We find novel ways to collaborate and create value together.Social coding commons
that last line - that's exactly it. I've been mostly under-the-radar blogging my thinking on this again lately (having started making these observations in 1989-90).
My current interest is (re)connecting real-world, localizable communities and real-world Third Places, using digital social tools as *tools* for those human social networks to get their needs met.
This ramble a few months ago was one related thought: johannab.ca/theBlog/2025-10-07…
Oww, that is interesting. See here what brought me to the #ActivityPub fediverse ages ago on IT timescales..
social.coop/@smallcircles/1161…
So the area where my plans go I call "Residential social networking", geo-fenced but inter-connected social networking circles that cover a city, town, or rural area, and which enable their residents to not only create content on the network, but the dynamic apps and services based on local needs that exist in the area. The intent of a residential social network is to engage people *offline* and in activities that support the local economy. Or rather strengthens the Circles of Sustainability in SX terminology:coding.social/blog/reimagine-s…
And all this should be a relatively low-code affair, directly accessible already for a first-time dev. This requires having a mature open standards based healthy technology foundation and thriving ecosystem.
I am a developer, though with rusty coding skills these days, and I might have started a fedi app design in 2018 or so. But this would not have led to the desired outcome, just throw one more app-centric software in the mix.
How We Reimagine the Social Web
We find novel ways to collaborate and create value together.Social coding commons
Read the blog post, and these are astute observation and valuable way of thinking about the networking environment, both offline as well as online, and how they interact together, how they intertwine. #SX envisions a peopleverse (which is a concept, not a name), a hypothetical space where the interaction is seamless and technology unobtrusively serves our day to day needs.
#PersonalSocialNetworking is a powerful instrument to design better social experiences.
Often the talk of the town in the #ActivityPub dev circles is about some feature or other, an app functionality and the extent to which it can be made interoperable. Technical implementation details dominate the discussion. And drama ensues on the broader #fediverse if social impact and other externalities are overlooked in an app design.
When comparing #microblogging we have today, it really is like sticky notes on the fridge, which fall off or are removed by people. And we project all communication modes onto them.
I very much think you and I have arrived at the same space, perhaps from different directions and with different vocabularies - I'm still very much learning how to communicate my terminologies and I hope it's OK that you've prompted me to shift into some of yours!
My paid-work background is +/- 30 years in "tech support", but much involved roles with titles related to "integration" , "deployment" and "client care". Good tools are made when we start with UX/SX and work back.
I'm now a (hopefully temporarily) unwaged grad student in an interdisciplinary urbanism/planning/systems program mashing that all up with community-first technology planning.
I have a seminar discussion tonight on a recently assigned "The Mayor's Brief" paper, and I took the approach of presenting and argument that Cities need to own their own social technology tools.
Remains to be seen how well I did that!
Totally! Cities should have their own tools. I find the whole #SmartCity trend to be dystopic #SurveillanceCapitalism driven, from what I've seen of it. Large corporations in the driver seat, plenty #BigTech, and a general 'drive for control' by technical means, rather than creating and evolving vibrant and safe living spaces by social means and encouragement of close participation of local residents in sustaining that.
It is hard to find sustenance to focus on the important applied R&D in the more social areas, with most #funding and support reserved for the cold hard tech side. While tech can only ever be supportive of "true social". It must address people's needs.
I'm biased but think its urgent to #fund initiatives like Social coding commons and #SX for fedi to stave off existential challenges. I approached @nlnet among others. Current #EU mandate by @EUCommission for @ngi results in a tech-first "code it and they will come", not a peopleverse.
social.coop/@smallcircles/1161…
#ThoughtProvokerThe current fediverse is an evolutionary dead-end for 2 reasons:
1. It has painted itself in a small niche of decentralizing typical social media use cases, by means of post-facto interop and the introduction of protocol decay.
2. Lacking a proper grassroots standardization process, and with the primary mechanism for fediverse extension being only post-facto interoperability, there is no way out.
Congratulations to the early adopters, who managed to "cross the chasm" with their own app platforms. It took true grit to become deep #ActivityPub experts, and plug holes needed for your app, but you have made it. Post-facto interop works in your favor now. You are unrestrained to productively add more features in your app, and put them on the fedi wire for others to deal with.
To avoid fedi to become less and less attractive to newcomers, we must now consider:
“Why do we want to grow the open social web, and for whom?” -- @ben
coding.social/blog/shared-owne…
Shared responsible social web ownership
We strive for an inclusive social web that is by the people and for the people. But how do we guarantee equity and shared ownership?Social coding commons
Oh, yeah.
I follow Evan, and Julian, but those threads sometimes cause me to glaze over - I've never been "a coder".
That said, I just re-read that one and holy cow, I'm seeing lots of analogies to problems with the DICOM protocol which DID drive my tech services/deployments work for decades.
One of the hardest challenges in keeping a human patient's medical records in order, and secure, is that different stakeholders need different relational connection to different components
DICOM data structures get crazy twisted, because every element in a recordbase could potentially be the point which is seen as the "root" from which everything branches.
Radiologists view Images, which have attributes including the Study, the Order, and the Patient.
Clinical care delivery people need Reports, which derive from Studies but also include Orders and Patients as attributes.
Primary care physicians are concerned with Patients, who come with 1:n relationships with attributes such as Orders, Studies, Reports, referrals, results, diagnoses....
Patients don't give a shit about having any attributes at all, they want to feel better and get the hell away from anything to do with medical technology!
I can see AP being at least as ridiculous as DICOM, though social networking is probably slightly lower-stakes for most. 🤣
I think what you will find interesting, and what immediately leads to a sort of mindset shift - which is required to fully grasp the holistic approach that SX follows - is that SX defines #SocialNetworking as follows:
"Any direct or indirect human interaction between people."
Period. That's it. It encompasses that vast scope, which includes both our offline and online worlds (handy, to focus on that peopleverse).
A healthcare system is a complex mulitplayer environment, where many people in different stakeholder roles work with sensitive data. That is the technical perspective.
On the social side, it is a social network, for which you can apply SX as the evolutionary solution design methodology.
Absolutely.
I'm out of it now, but wow, it would be immensely beneficial for a patient to truly *own* their medical data lake and just exchange the relevant records when needed.
It would also be several lifetimes' work to do that correctly, I fear, and there are eleventy-million and one startups making their own wrongheaded attempts at it with "patient portals" and "AI health" and other such malwares.
Just start small and 🍀 evolve. A good example is the Netherlands where I live. In the 50s it was as car-heavy as any US state today, but by following a consistent policy we turned it into a bikers' paradise. And that is now an exemplar for other cities and even countries across the world. An export product :D
hahaha - your example appears somewhere in my world almost daily - urbanism studies, active transportation folks I follow, and in my fediverse-urbanism interconnections all the time.
It's amazing what we can transform if we get the entrenched and unimaginative status quo out of the way.
What no one has remarked thus far, is that this #poll has a serious flaw. Sure, if you're in a village or city you can find roads and highways that lead you to answer the question above.
But if you are in a Ghost Town out in the wilderness, the poll likely won't pass by your timeline. And warp the outcome of this little #fediverse survey.
Boosts are appreciated so the poll has more chance to find the outer reaches of our fedi universe.
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Even more remarkable is the near complete absence of the #ActivityPub developer community in mingling in the social side of the discussion.
To learn how #fedizens actually *experience* this here fediverse. A #fediverse which results from them tying their apps together, to hopefully get more than the sum of individual parts. By means of facilitating #interoperability, technically speaking. But it involves more than getting that feature across the wire to the next app.
There's exists a clear gap between #sociosphere and #technosphere, where the latter must serve the former to bring real solutions. Otherwise it is all apps and not much seamless social fabric to navigate. No peopleverse anywhere in sight. Just apps and users of them.
The apps see great success, and I enjoy their use a lot. But I don't see a future for the app-centric fediverse where it comes to providing mankind the future of #SocialNetworking.
social.coop/@smallcircles/1161…
#ThoughtProvokerThe current fediverse is an evolutionary dead-end for 2 reasons:
1. It has painted itself in a small niche of decentralizing typical social media use cases, by means of post-facto interop and the introduction of protocol decay.
2. Lacking a proper grassroots standardization process, and with the primary mechanism for fediverse extension being only post-facto interoperability, there is no way out.
Congratulations to the early adopters, who managed to "cross the chasm" with their own app platforms. It took true grit to become deep #ActivityPub experts, and plug holes needed for your app, but you have made it. Post-facto interop works in your favor now. You are unrestrained to productively add more features in your app, and put them on the fedi wire for others to deal with.
To avoid fedi to become less and less attractive to newcomers, we must now consider:
“Why do we want to grow the open social web, and for whom?” -- @ben
coding.social/blog/shared-owne…
Shared responsible social web ownership
We strive for an inclusive social web that is by the people and for the people. But how do we guarantee equity and shared ownership?Social coding commons
Within this multitude different folks have different needs and desires, some are testing the waters, some are regulars.
Even the impulse for networked sociality ebbs and flows.
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In a technical sense constituting a shift towards a fediverse of apps and services.
In a social sense as inter-connected spaces that are open for people to explore, collaborate, cocreate, and do all the things we do offline to the extent we can do them online too, plus all the extra's that remote connection by technological means have to offer.
But that is an exploratory design area. A vast space hardly explored. This is where Social experience design focuses. See the diagram at coding.social where SX broadens horizons by taking a more holistic approach (actually utterly holistic and boundless in scope, as SX scales from personal to societal levels).
What #SX envisions is a peopleverse. A hypothetical place-to-be in the future where our online and offline worlds are seamlessly intertwined and in services of our day to day activities and human needs.
We reimagine the social web and cocreate a peopleverse.Social coding commons
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This is just me note-taking and cross-referencing.. weaving in public :)
discuss.coding.social/t/rsvp-f…
Adding a marker to this poll on how people experience the fediverse, with absolutely delightful outcome and responses, but also showing the huge gap to the developer community who seem to be lost in tech and their own app domains.Discuss Social Coding
Don't worry it is more a note-to-self on the forum which serves as note-taking tool. The link it includes is to the poll at the top of this thread. Other than that I have tooted all over the place on the subject matter, which is unfortunately now all dispersed and sinking in timeline history (though I kept a bunch of bookmarks).
"Even more remarkable is the near complete absence of the #ActivityPub developer community in mingling in the social side of the discussion."
Once you've been here for a little longer you'll realise this statement isn't the case.
You are certainly not wrong. And I apologize, as it is not immediately clear that my post above is against the backdrop of 2 weeks of microblogging addressing a whole range of paint points and inhibitors to a fedi that evolves to be the future of social networking. Microblogging is too fragmentary and 'context-lossy', but unfortunately the primary comms channel for the dev community.
The gist and big issue is that the current fediverse is app-centric in nature, and accepted a work method that will further that app-centricness by introducing ever more protocol decay and tech debt. The examples you gave above are app talk, turn to features, howto federate feature, tech talk, get mired in impl details. And importantly: do not catch up with standards. That is up to some poor volunteers, who see that things are going side-ways.
There are 2 fediverse forks: the promised one in the AP specs, and the one we have. There's no shared vision, and tons of misconception to deal with.
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@lproven ouch, I am sorry. At least it serves the goal of making social networking better. And the results thus far we are a long way on the road towards a Personal social networking paradigm shifts that provides you more control in finding the crowd you're most comfortable with.
coding.social/blog/reimagine-s…
We find novel ways to collaborate and create value together.Social coding commons
Hey, no biggie.
I am just not very fond of these metaphors though. It's all been going downhill since Usenet, in my book.
yes, I can understand that, and when e.g. we compare with LinkedIn, then it is all full of "add your like" polls that are not more than influencer growth-hacking. We should not get there.
Note that I posted this against a backdrop of warning for existential threats that the fediverse also faces at the same time. The top of this thread and onwards gives a good summary..
social.coop/@smallcircles/1161…
The thread has many forks that delve in the interesting underlying social dynamics that we'd benefit from if we better understood them, and able to support them in our tools.
For example the discussion triggered by @johannab in this response..
cosocial.ca/@johannab/11616667…
Other: loosely-bound meta-network of more tightly-bound community or topical networks.I *describe my experience* using all kinds of analogies such as the other options in this poll.
tl'dr I think you might be right. the below are some thoughts but isn't directly addressing what you were saying, it just sits in the same universe.
I've been thinking about this exchange, and what I am seeing on Fedi is there's a tendency on the part of the promoters (especially on Mastodon, but to some extent all of them) to conflate shared interests with server preferences. way back in the day, Usenet was popular, and your connection to it did help as part of your (with a university, or other provider) (username@the.org.im.in.edu) but the discussions were separated by topics (sci.space, talk.bizarre, etc) and at least from what I saw did not become an echo chamber. some topics were moderated.
Reddit is centralized but still tries to do that. however since there's moderation and such still an echo chamber and everyone has throwaway handles.
Fedi is more like usenet, but people instead tell newcomers to find community by picking the right server and using hashtags. that's offputting and also leaves people who don't have time to go digging kind of lost and at the mercy of the boosting preferences of whoever does have time. and the hashtags are a guess, and rely on accurate autocomplete (which in my experience doesn't exist), and are often not used by people posting.
if there was a better way to register and define topics other than using freeform hashtags that might help, and also would shut down a lot of "hoa" behaviour like "put politics behind a trigger warning" etc. it would make it easier to avoid undesired topics, by simply not following them. but I suspect that means a change to the AP protocol which is already a mess.
My problem with using person vor journalist is as follows:
- The Organizations are the actual, paying customers (Sales domain, but also grouping element for authorization checks)
- We have journalists on both ends of our software. *our* journalists produce news which the customers journalists use to write their news
- people are everywhere in our system. So we need words to differentiate between them
You may look at domain driven design here, the 'strategic design' parts, that is.
The solutions are to either use more specific stakeholder names than "Journalist", and perhaps make Journalist a stakeholder group.
Or distinguish the bounded contexts that define and restrict the meaning of Journalist to a particular sub-domain. Bounded contexts form consistency boundaries in the software design, and when you communicate across boundaries you can take contextual or semantic differences into account.
That is the part where tactical patterns apply, like an anti-corruption layer between the different journalistic contexts.
ECommerce is the usual example, where an Order has a different meaning to the Sales domain than that it has to Billing or Shipping. And the data model of the Order has different fields in each of these sub-domains.
I do know about bounded contexts and DDD. Our code is structured to make clear in which context we move. I guess its more of a "Ubiquitious Language" Problem when talking with people about what we need to do and what not.
Did I mention that not *all* our "users" are journalists? Some are just "consumers". So I still need a word to mean both at the same time as they are the ones to get authorized to different parts/services of our Software.
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.TheRollingStonesVEVO (YouTube)
Yes, ubiquitous language. I created an excalidraw copy of a diagram that you see quite often to explain the idea. I adapted it slightly for the purpose of coding.social
I can't say what are best name choices in your case, but at least I feel confident that it is possible to entirely avoid "user" and benefit from some extra clarity by doing so.
We reimagine the social web and cocreate a peopleverse.Social coding commons
Hmm... Well.... I thought at least a good year about these questions and did not yet come up with better words.
I mean, yes, our journalists are creators, which clarifies that. But then our users would be consumers and thats not better. And I cant call them journalists as not every user is one. So client maybe? But that would be a better fit for the Organizations as they are the ones talking with sales and paying the money.
All in all: I really am at a loss for better words here.
Nonetheless, thank you for your time 🙏🏻
I was going to answer a cozy village after seeing how crazy a place like BlueSky is whenever emotions run hot, but then I realized that effect is exactly the opposite of a cozy village.
The best and worst part of a cozy village is that you know everyone, but you can't get away from them so the limited diversity means you're always stuck on the same things. If you don't enjoy those exact same things you either keep to yourself or you leave.
In a bustling city, it takes effort to find your tribe. Even though you're in a much larger population center, your in-group can end up being far smaller than it would be in a cozy village because everyone has a much larger number of choices of groups they can belong to.
Being lost and NOT being able to quickly feel like you belong is exactly what you'd expect to experience in a bustling city.
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@yetiinabox this I really like as a mental image depicting the future of social networking.
A rallying cry of coding.social is to (dare to) Reimagine Social. To reimagine social networking holds a challenge to think out of the box, and distinguish the sociosphere from the technosphere that should support it.
On the social side we can pursue dreams together, while we materialize them as we realize corresponding technology visions on the technical side.
We are nowhere near of the deliberate solution design of our dreams (pun intended: added wordplay), but framing your technology effort in a proper social context is a great way to more meaningful and purposeful software development. Good examples are @Bonfire and @Framasoft
Framasoft lets the artwork, created by @davidrevoy, speak for the vibes and values of the open technology landscape they envision. The imagery depicts the dream driving the vision.
To Reimagine Social our place on the Fediverse Adventure Map is here ...
We reimagine the social web and cocreate a peopleverse.Social coding commons
Okay so a cozy village it is.
I hereby state my availability for the position of the village idiot, should we choose to elect / appoint / designate one.
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@duckz floss.social/@fdroidorg/116130…
It's okay, don't worry, only about 3.9 billion users are affected.And it's not like they needed to use apps that don't invade their privacy, apps that don't sell their data, apps that don't track them, apps you can inspect their source-code, apps with developers that answer bug reports, apps you can localize to your native language, apps that connect to your own hosted services and all that.
🙄
@duckz @skywalker2k17 @fdroidorg
Hey guys, I think the major concern here is that it will affect the entire Android ecosystem because this policy is targeting developers not users. How many FOSS developers would keep making apps for Android after this? Even if you are on a de-googled version of Android that won't add this restriction you still need developers to keep making apps or else you won't have anything to install/update. So there is still great cause for concern here!
@dangillmor “Android’s open legacy”
Excuse me while I laugh out of both ends.
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Oh please someone read this paper. Anyone! Anyone with a heartbeat please read this paper. Here.
The assholes at Elsevier put it behind a paywall but here's a preprint you can share with anyone else who has a heartbeat.
Please for the love of God. Anyone read this!!!
infosec.exchange/@catsalad/116…
Scientists don't want you to know this, but orange cats are slowly replacing humans!
I don't want a city on Mars.
I don't want AI in every app.
I don't want data centres in space.
I want clean water.
I want a stable climate.
I want bees to survive.
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can someone make an "I want" song out of this, like in a musical? ^^
wait, I was told, that there are too many bees, in some regions (partly because of human-organized honey production). They are pushing other pollinators out of local ecosystems...
As for the other points, well, small Antarctic-base sized scientific settlement on Mars would be cool, but huge 2-stage rocket without high-power 3rd stage probably won't be enough for that, which was now officially admitted, after all.
The AI bubble is problem. And as for water and climate, nobody can deny this, of course.
Well…I can honestly say what you are likely to get is none.
But they’ll certainly kill the last three to grift money for the first three…
…and that was always the plan.
I think it won’t be more than 10 years, before Elon Musk after his data centers in space failing, suggests that it would be better to launch humans into space so we can fit more data centers on earth…
By that time he’s already become techno-pope with his own religion, and will frame all this is ”spiritual” cultish terms, like ”expanding the light of conciousness” or similar. 🤔
I don't want unlimited growth.
I don't want unlimited wealth.
I don't want dictatorial rule.
I want respect for indigenous ways.
I want use of indigenous technologies.
I want sequestration of fossil fuels.
You might want to _read_ "A city on Mars" though.
(It's a really good book about how feasible a colony on Mars actually is. Spoiler: It isn't. acityonmars.com/)
Earth is not well. The promise of starting life anew somewhere far, far away—no climate change, no war, no Twitter—beckons, and settling the stars finally seems within our grasp.www.acityonmars.com
To my mind being a civilised nation requires that everyone living in that nation has access to:
- clean water,
- sufficient food,
- effective sanitation,
- basic medical care,
- effective shelter from the weather.
According to this, I suspect no nation on planet earth can be regarded as civilised.
A short update for March 2026.
We are continuing to actively fundraise for financial support to develop a Wayland compositor for Xfce(xfwl4).
In the month of February, we have received 52 donations (Xfce: $419.61 & Xfce(EU): €634.10).
To date, we have paid out $15,050 for work completed on xfwl4.
Thanks again for your generous support and ongoing donations. We are grateful for your commitment to help improve Xfce.
If you would like to help financially support the development of a new Wayland compositor for Xfce, you can do so by contributing funds via our #OpenCollective accounts.For US contributions:
opencollective.com/xfceFor EU contributions:
opencollective.com/xfce-euThese contributions will help pay for the funding of longtime Xfce core developer Brian Tarricone to create xfwl4, a brand-new Wayland compositor for Xfce.
Thank you for your support!
#Xfce #Wayland #Rust #FOSS #Linux
Xfce - Open Collective
Xfce is a lightweight desktop environment for UNIX-like operating systems. It aims to be fast and low on system resources, while still being visually appealing and user friendly.opencollective.com
You are being manipulated.
#USPolitics #IranWar #Propaganda #Iran #Trump
We're happy to announce a long-term partnership with Motorola. We're collaborating on future devices meeting our privacy and security standards with official GrapheneOS support.
motorolanews.com/motorola-thre…
Motorola announces three new B2B solutions at MWC 2026, including GrapheneOS partnership, Moto Analytics and more.marreroc (Global Blog)
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because a) you completely ignore anything else i say, including the two times i said that third world countries don't get pixel phones, specially not cheap ones, and b) because you said it yourself:
> > firstly, don’t see this as an attack on GrapheneOS
> Okay, but that's how we see it.
Literally. The double standard is ridiculous.
It's been years of GrapheneOS publicity/social media activity making the maintainers look self-centered and ignorant. I have to tell anyone I recommend GrapheneOS to not look at your social media activity. If you can't take criticism, how are you going to ensure security through peer reviews? How will users be able to trust your ability to work together to make secure software when this is how you treat people who disagree with you?
Stubborn, self-centered people are a risk factor in InfoSec because these attributes indicate closed-mindedness. You have to work on this if you want people to (continue to) trust you with this project.
— A concerned long-time GrapheneOS user
Sensitive content
@izzy
It was your point that Motorola is the partner because they want to make money. If the people are only able to buy their phones after some others already did and now resell them, I don't See how they profit. People buying the high Ende devices for Graphene may exist AS well but in WhatsApo rate
> systemd -> dinit or s6
Lots of these are giving up even more security features.
> hardened_malloc, malloc-ng, or mimalloc-secure
These aren't the same classes of allocators at all. Neither the musl malloc or mimalloc is a hardened allocator. mimalloc is performance focused and musl's is focused on low memory usage.
> What are your thoughts on what to do in case the day comes that Google kills AOSP?
What about when IBM decides to kill systemd, GCC and GNOME?
@lumi @alexia The current default software stack for desktop Linux is kind of terrible and the lack of coherent threat model or proper ecosystem of sandboxed applications are major issues with desktop right now. What I am still questioning is whether it is even possible to make a proper competitor to ChromeOS (if we ignore the hardware insecurity of basically all PCs).
So example software choices:
systemd -> dinit or s6
sudo -> s6-sudo (setuidless)
glibc -> muslc
glibc malloc or jemalloc -> hardened_malloc, malloc-ng, or mimalloc-secure (which supports more CPU architectures)
bubblewrap (sandbox used by Flatpak) -> #syd (it's written in Rust, has many important exploit protections, and can even be the user login: gitlab.exherbo.org/sydbox/sydb…)
GNOME or KDE -> XFCE (when their new Rust Wayland native WM is finished)
gnutils -> *BSD or uutils
The issue of course with most of these alternatives is that they are separate projects and therefore dont have the same goals, methods, or threat models. Also most of these projects are written in C which does not help at all. Also there is of course the lack of a proper chain of trust from the hardware to loading the kernel and userspace.
It may just not be reasonably possible to provide a alternative without millions of dollars of funding and a decade of development. It would be nice for there to be an alternative to AOSP/ChromeOS or even MacOS for desktop computing which actually takes security seriously. It doesnt even need to have be completely on par when it comes to security, just do better than current Linux distros (not a very high bar).
What are your thoughts on what to do in case the day comes that Google kills AOSP?
@GOKUSHRM Our partnership is Motorola is not exclusive and we're fully allowed to partner with other OEMs. However, we don't currently have the resources to partner with additional OEMs and it will likely be a while before we do.
Partnerning to make smartphones with a company which recently discontinued their smartphones doesn't sound workable. The point is also mainly getting an OEM to raise their security to meet our requirements rather than getting an OEM to sell devices with GrapheneOS.
doing PGO on a development build (considering the guide is meant for developers) is insane IMO
that's something one would do on their final fully optimized build, not for development, and specially not if the need to debug anything in native code is there...
from what i recall in my encounters with googlers: it's pgo.
from my own experience on gentoo lto adds around 30% memory pressure and pgo adds around 50%, compile time is mostly unaffected with lto but pgo quadruples it.
parallel builds and LTO stuff, i assume
meaning you could run with less memory, by reducing the amount of parallel builds, except that would make the already long 6 hour build time increase close to exponentially
so 64 gb for 72 build processes doesn't seem super unnatural but 64 for 6 is weird.
it's probably fine with 8 to 16 on 6 core.
note that, as i mentioned on the thread before, back in 2019 i tried to build it on a 7th gen i7 (so 4/8 c/t) with 16 gigs of ram and a sata ssd, after 3 days of non-stop building, i gave up
and that was when the minimum recommendations were still 32gb of ram
What about when IBM decides to kill systemd, GCC and GNOME?systemd
Between GNU Shepherd, supervise-daemon and runit? 
GCC
You'll have to explain why/how IBM owns GCC. Fairly sure it's an actual FSF project. 
GNOME?
RIP lol 
Other than the accessibility stuff most of it I don't care much about, and with the ensloppification going on & Red Hat apparently insisting on it, it might well die anyway.
What are your thoughts on what to do in case the day comes that Google kills AOSP?
This however has real chances of happening and already has a largely closed development process with no community.
Which means it doesn't even need a poison pill contributor agreement, all the necessary rights are probably already in Google's possession for malicious license changes.
Not to mention that the main useful part of Android, the drivers & their documentation, aren't even included anyway. Everything else could be replaced by something better with some work.
@King_of_Ooo @alexia @lumi So, how many of those community projects aren't simply downstream like the Mozilla Firefox ones?
How many are actually credibly in a position to take development over entirely with a dead upstream?
@lispi314 @King_of_Ooo @alexia @lumi
> You know, if you're just going to avoid the question you could simply not answer that post, like you did with my mobile modem isolation question.
Don't know what you're talking about. You're one of hundreds of people.
> The overwhelming majority of the BSD tooling
It has little to do with the desktop software stack. That increasingly only has an incomplete port over to BSD with a growing amount of hacks. It would just roll it back even further.
@King_of_Ooo @alexia @lumi You know, if you're just going to avoid the question you could simply not answer that post, like you did with my mobile modem isolation question.
The overwhelming majority of the BSD tooling that isn't systemd could be ported with a modest effort if systemd died. Note that I linked daemon supervisors earlier, because session managers and init systems are a lot easier to come by.
edit: Ah, my bad, I confused the subthread. You did ignore it and replied to the prior post.
@bobkmertz @greenpete @joe9nf That was most likely the modem and in some early mobiles there was zero isolation preventing the modem from simply reading all the memory bus.
(The modem should be understood as a blackbox device at the mercy of hostile infrastructure providers & "authorities", it is attack surface.)
I would hope that such isolation is part of the GrapheneOS safety requirements.
Answers to frequently asked questions about GrapheneOS.GrapheneOS
If they #Motorola could add #LoRa or something similar that could be a game changer.
They would offer something that other companies don't, while there is demand from users.
It also brings privacy advantages as it makes it easier to communicate undetected from cell towers. People are starting to roll out networks covering wide areas.
In addition to that, it adds an element of resilience where people could continue to communicate even when cell towers are shut down. This is especially important during national disasters and governments overreach shutting down internet access.
TL;DR: Yes.
Well, as degoogled as using an OS maintained by Google gets
@luana Yes, that's part of our hardware requirements:
grapheneos.org/faq#future-devi…
Whether they'll be sold at retail with GrapheneOS preinstalled as an option isn't a question we can answer yet. It mostly comes down to Google's requirements and the extent to which those can be worked around or pushed to be relaxed.
Answers to frequently asked questions about GrapheneOS.GrapheneOS
@ferricoxide @luana No, it's a much different feature than the incomplete implementation for desktops. The entirely of the firmware and operating system are cryptographically verified with downgrade protection. The secure element is used to store the version metadata for downgrade protection for the OS and efuses are used for the firmware portion of it. It's fully integrated with the A/B update system with automatic rollback until reaching the home screen successfully.
grapheneos.org/install/web#ver…
Web-based installer for GrapheneOS, a security and privacy focused mobile OS with Android app compatibility.GrapheneOS
@GrapheneOS Go for it. You will succeed when there are, let's say, three phones from affordable to high range.
The future: When you are supporting a lot of Motos, integrate another brand (Asus?) and finally get rid of the Pixels. 
This is a premature joke for the 1. April, right? 😳🤔😂🤣
Choosing a company like Motorola with it's owner Lenovo behind it for the reasons of privacy and security isn't beyond a good idea but pure hypocrisy and a punch in the guts for all of the supporters of GrapheneOS in my opinion. 🖕
Greed ate brain, happened again it seems. 🤮
#GrapheneOS #Motorola #Lenovo #Privacy #Security #Hypocrisy #Joke
The point isn’t whether GrapheneOS receives money from Motorola.
The point is the consistency of the security and trust model you advocate! 🙄
GrapheneOS often emphasizes minimizing trust in large corporations, opaque supply chains, and potential state influence.
Yet Motorola is owned by Lenovo, a Chinese company operating under a legal environment where state access to companies can be mandated.
If the argument is that users should minimize trust and maximize verifiable security, partnering with an OEM embedded in that jurisdiction raises legitimate questions.
This isn’t about “greed” but about coherence of principles.
If Chinese OEM ownership is usually framed as a risk in privacy discussions, it seems inconsistent to dismiss those concerns when it becomes convenient for hardware support.
Criticism here isn’t hostility—it’s asking whether the same standards are being applied consistently. 😉
@kranzkrone It's quite apparent you're using an LLM to generate concern troll replies. It's incoherent and lacks actual substance. We're not going to be interacting with a text generator someone has directed to waste our time and energy.
If you don't want us banning your instance and making a public post asking everyone else to do the same then remove both of these AI generated replies and stop bothering us.
Here's our policy on AI generated content for discussions:
It's indeed quite apparent that you acting out in the same way like you did in the past when the founder of GrapheneOS had a personal dispute with another somewhat prominent personality of the tech world.
If you don't want me to further investigate your toxic behavior of communication and try to framing me as the bad one, you should definitely thread lightly.
Threatening me with whatever action won't result in deleting my previous posts but instead will strengthen my personal investment in further interactions and maybe legal actions.
Louis Rossmann may would find this interesting to read too.
I'm fine to end it here by agreeing to disagree.
@kranzkrone You've moved on from posting low quality concern trolling which appears to be at least partially generated by an LLM to blatant libel and support for harassment. We haven't framed you for anything. Your replies to our thread make it clear what you're doing.
Louis Rossmann orchestrated harassment towards our founder by making many extraordinarily dishonest claims in a video where he engaged in blatant bullying. Rossmann is openly a Kiwi Farms user and is the one who involved them.
@JamesDBartlett3 @lispi314 @a53bdb @lunareclipse I agree.
I consider the USA as the premium example for the latter. 😉
any chance that we'll have Google wallet support?
since the bootloader will trust the grapheneos keys I can't imagine why would safetynet and the other play protect mechanisms won't pass attestation (for all intents and purposes graphene would be indistinguishable from the stock Motorola image)
if that's the case I'll buy the device the moment it comes out...
@a53bdb To be fair, all phones are made there so that risk always exists anyway.
As long as GrapheneOS doesn't slack on their requirements including (but not limited to) being able to access low level stuff it shouldn't be much worse if you flash the phone yourself. And those kind of requirements are why Pixels where the only ones supported to begin with...
I heard rumours that GrapheneOS will ship in phones and it will not be possible to flash another OS.
Is this true?
@joonq @a53bdb
Sorry, but despite US offices and staff, the company is 100% Chinese.
Here is why:
-> Acquisition: Bought Motorola from Google in 2014 for $2.91B.
-> Headquarters: Global HQ is in Beijing.
-> Shareholders: Parent company Legend Holdings is Chinese.
-> Leadership: CEO Yang Yuanqing is Chinese.
-> Origins: Born from a state-owned research institute.
What might be cause for concern is if the ‘blond’ driving the world crazy were to target Motorola or Lenovo, causing them to pull out of the US market, or if, like Huawei, they were to have Android stripped away from them. At that point, they might decide on one of two things: either ‘steal’ the GrapheneOS technology, or strengthen their partnership with Graphene and make Graphene the primary software for Motorola/Lenovo. It could be an interesting development, but I imagine it would be stressful for the creators of Graphene
@anon_4601 @joonq @a53bdb Lenovo is a publicly traded company with 31% of the shares are owned by Legend Holdings.
Legend Holdings is a publicly traded company with 29% of the shares owned by the Chinese Academy of Sciences.
That works out to the Chinese Academy of Sciences owning around 9% of Lenovo. They're far from owning the majority of it.
We're continuing to support Pixels which are the only Android devices from a major OEM based in the US. Smaller brands are white labelled ODM phones.
"I was born in an Iranian prison. My parents were held in their jails. My uncles lie in their mass graves. Nothing you can tell me about the crimes of the Iranian regime that I haven’t lived in blood and bone. That doesn’t mean I want my people bombed, maimed, killed, their homes in ruins. If your vision of liberation comes only through the destruction of innocent lives, then it’s not freedom you’re after.”
Sahar Delijani
#iran
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"PK: We have both been anti-war voices (as well as anti-sanctions) and also voices of pro-Palestinian solidarity for ages now. Can you talk about what that means in this moment?
SD: I feel that this is happening now—that the war has come to Iran—because we didn’t fight hard enough for Gaza, for Palestine. We didn’t stand tall enough. We didn’t risk enough. And I include myself in that. I didn’t do enough. I didn’t speak loud enough against the utter injustice that is waged against the Palestinian people.
That silence—ours and the world’s—has emboldened Israel to act with total impunity. It struck Lebanon, Yemen, Syria. No one said anything. It actively starves people, kills them as they wait for food, and still the international community says nothing.
Never has it been clearer to me now: we the people of the MENA region are completely on our own. And we will not survive this hell unless we unite, unless we truly see and hear one another, unless we fight for each other. Not only against war but against every last trace of fascist dictatorial rule that has brought ruin upon us and our lands. No one will bring us salvation. Only we can."
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I am British and fully agree with you, this action won't solve anything and could make the situation worse for everyone in Iran.
Not that the US / Israel care, as long as Iran can't develop nuclear weapons of course.
Well Trump is not consistent here.
He ticked off the box in front "war" to get more support at home.
At the same time he is arguing that the same war that is supposed to raise support for #Trumpregime is supposed to weaken support for the Iranian regime.
While it might weaken it because of the couple of bombs it will almost certainly push all non strict opposition citizens into a more "patriotic" pro regime mood. America the Big Satan.
Self introspection is not a core American value
Interesting development. Nice to see an independent Android build get a preinstall option on a non-google phone.
Motorola confirms GrapheneOS support for a future phone, bringing over features
9to5google.com/2026/03/01/moto…
#Andoid #Google #Motorola #CustomRom #GrapheneOS
Motorola has announced a partnership with GrapheneOS which will see a phone with support, as well as features ported to other devices.Ben Schoon (9to5Google)
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Thank you Jean for becoming our new 5€ a month supporter tromsite.com/donate/ !!
And thank you to everyone who supports TROM financially. We do a lot of projects. We provide a Friendica instance and have over a thousand users, a Peertube instance with unlimited uploads, a Nextcloud instance providing 10GB of space for everyone and a full Office Suite...a custom Linux distribution, a documentaries-based website...
See our donation page how many things we do. And we will do more!
#nextcloud #friendica #fediverse #peertube #fedi #selfhosting #foss #opensource
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Good morning from planet Earth
Instead of humans being tribal, religious lunatics, trade fanatics and war thirsty, they should by now have created a paradise on Earth. Understand their fantastic story and how we are all connected to the other creatures, to the Earth and the universe, in a purely scientific way.
To use our resources to provide for all. To send rockets to the outer space to explore instead to send them on Earth to kill more. To fight with diseases, not with each other.
To grow our minds. Be busy with being smart and curious.
Instead this species is a total shitshow. Bunch of tribes with rockets.
Pathetic.
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el_haych2024
in reply to It's FOSS • • •Malka Beth
in reply to It's FOSS • • •slamr
in reply to It's FOSS • • •I have a Fairphone and the biggest gripe I have with it is Android. I still can't believe Fairphone haven't read the room and provided and alternative privacy based option out of the box without having to flash firmware and risk bricking your phone. this is interesting
#fairphone #privacy
Michel Sardon 🎸
in reply to It's FOSS • • •surprised... another American company 🤦♂️
> For the rest of the world, i guess neither a chinese nor an american company seems like a good idea
Janik
in reply to It's FOSS • • •Nazo
in reply to It's FOSS • • •Yeah, they've been letting people know they were trying to get a manufacturer in on this. Guess they found one.
The real question is, will they pull a OnePlus crap and suddenly decide profits are more important?
andi
in reply to It's FOSS • • •Mario
in reply to It's FOSS • • •Unfortunately, Fairphones are the only phones I will buy from here onwards. Graphene should look at them instead.
Also, even though sanxboxed, they are using the google play spyware instead of microg replacement. They should focus their resources on sandboxing microg.
It's The Coffee Knight
in reply to It's FOSS • • •