Of course not, it is to showcase that if we were to take care of human beings, then most won't even end up in jail. But now humans spend a lot of money to lock these people up. Perhaps that money should be spent to take care of these humans in the first place so they don't end up in jail either.
@tio I do feel like maybe some of these memes could be mistaken without the context behind it. When someone's reading the whole book then its clear what the point its trying to make, but without that context I can see how it can be confusing for people like @utopify_org
I know there is no easy fix for this, but I thought its important to let you know. Without the context of what the book is trying to say, it can be easily misunderstood. Maybe its not a big issue for people who are already very familiar with TROM, but there's not many of us like that, lol 😅 @trom@social.trom.tf @TROM@www.social.tromsite.com @utopify_org
But the irony here is that this image is one of the best ones in terms of having a meaning on its own :D - it is suppose to make people wonder that if you put someone in jail for theft, yet you spend so much money to try and do that, the money you spent there could have prevented the theft if the person had access to it. :P
I'm not talking specifically about this image, but still this image was confusing for @utopify_org and that's why they asked that question. So there's still some ambiguity for people who don't know the context, which I think is most people.
This is how they saw it:
> So your solution is to give every person half of a million dollar to stop crime? It wouldn't work! But that's how a super inflation works and criminal cases would go up. It would just put gas in a fire.
Yes but in all honesty that interpretation is quite weird. I mean it is clear that it was not such a suggestion but a question about how we spend money on putting people in jail, rather than helping people so they don't end up in jail. I'd be surprised if most people thought the same way this commenter did.
I don't know, I wasn't talking about this post in particular but I wouldn't be surprised if more people thought like @utopify_org did, I don't think its a wild interpretation. Because we are already familiar with the context so our brain may not go into such conclusions, but for others this may not be the case. Comments like this indicate that people can get the wrong idea, we shouldn't ignore it.
I understand that everyone has different interpretations, but his was quite wild. I can't say much about this because it is very strange to me to interpret it in that manner. But again, there is no point in us talking too much about it since there is nothing I can do now except remove them from being shared entirely....
Yeah, it sucks that there is no easy fix for this. I only said this because I also had a feeling that maybe some of these would confuse people, this is the first time someone commenting about it though. I don't know, maybe its because I look at everything through a magnifying glass, lol @trom@social.trom.tf @TROM@www.social.tromsite.com @utopify_org
By the way I can't really see these comments of yours, are you commending directly on "TROM@www.social.tromsite.com" account or our Friendica social.trom.tf/profile/trom account? If you follow "TROM@www.social.tromsite.com" directly and comment to that then that is a Wordpress website with Activity pub without public comments enabled so we cannot reply to you. Please follow our friendica page and comment on that.
Maybe that money could be used to provide the basic necessities of people so they don't need to worry about money in order to survive, but that's just palliative, there is no real solution to these problems as long as we live in a trade based society, as trade is the cause of most of these crimes.
hm idk but I cannot see your comments unless I specifically look at your account...even now I got no notification. trom@social.trom.tf this is the proper account not TROM@www.social.tromsite.com
But at which time should we invest money to avoid it in the first place? In school or right after school, because if people are looking for jobs, they have no money and might get bad thoughts.
Humans should be taken care of from the get-go. Not from this or that age.
I am still not far enough in the book "The Origin of Most Problems" to talk about it a lot, but I somehow miss realistic solutions.
The first part is a story, of about 100 pages long, after that we get into the "facts" part of it. And the book is not about the solutions as it is about the problem. It is a book that argue this is the most important aspect: to understand what the problem is.
There are only claims and the hero proves somehow irrelevant points, because they don't lead to a solution.
Read the book not a bit of it, in order to judge it please.
I lived for 3 decades now and I've come across such short messages all the time. I was never as confused. But ok, at least you can ask and we can reply. So that's fine. I do not see how the message from this image is confusing. It is a question....if a man is arrested so many times for theft and it costs the tribe so much money to deal with him, would he still steal if they were to give the money to him?
Is similar to: most people do drugs because they are unhappy and poor, yet USA invests a lot of money in criminalizing the drugs. Would these people still do drugs if the USA would pour those money in social programs and help these people?
These do not need much context.....they are quite obvious I'd say.
I think its actually more worrying when we don't get a response, you at least commented on it so we were able to clear the confusion here, but what if it doesn't get cleared? That's a bigger issue. If someone misinterprets it then:
1. They may think TROM is saying unreasonable things or whatever and leave the project.
2. They can get the wrong message and keep believing it as true.
These are both problems that can be caused by unclear communication.
Ok so it seems you are interpreting it as such then....strange but ok. Of course we are not saying they should give everyone 1 million dollar. We are saying that if you were to help people they would not steal probably. If people had access to what they need at least, most crimes would not exist.
Simply put, Tio's point was to use that 1 million dollar for humanitarian projects and such, to actually help people.
> I would even say rich people are getting bored really fast and to "feel alive" they have to do something illegal (and it will be much bigger).
You may feel like that but I don't think this is true, there's a lot of other better ways to "feel alive" than doing illegal things. Committing crimes is not fun like they show in some movies, lol.
I gave you a random and invented example to bring home the point about misinterpreting small bits of text. And you got that one right but not the original post.
Happiness Index? I wonder what is that about.
There are lots of statistic sand documentaries about drugs and who or why they consume. videoneat.com/?s=drugs here - many poor people and homeless ones, end up drug addicts simply because of the harsh life they have to endure. The drug use in those that are not poor, is also related to their unhappy life, but of course also influenced by all sort of media that they consume, and by those who sell the drugs.
> Your theory is not true about why most people are doing drugs and you build up on it to create another open question.
Hold on, the image in the post was talking about theft which is obviously a result of poverty. I'm not saying all thiefs are poor, but most are, and the rest of them are also a direct result of this unfair trade system where people with more money are treated better than others, so people do all kinds of scams to make money.
I am well aware of the example in Portugal and we probably give that example in the book from where this quote is. Actually I should have linked to it sooner tromsite.com/books/#flipbook-d… - if not is in another one.
I do not make "weird" points at all, all of our books are factual and sourced so much they are bleeding. Yes we use some stories at times, that are fictional, to add up to the point we try to make. But this is rare.
Oh ok, that makes sense. BTW, I would also like to say that there is a big difference between simply using a drug and becoming a drug addict, drugs have ruined many people's lives and they're much more likely to happen if you're poor and frustrated, I'm not saying rich people are immune to it, but the pressure put on people my the monetary system surely has a big impact. Also I think it has been shown that welfare programs and such can reduce this problem. @trom@social.trom.tf @TROM@www.social.tromsite.com @utopify_org
I saw this post about some new and nice features that will land to Nautilus in the next releases. And I thought why not make a post about Thunar, XFCE’s file manager and of course, TROMjaro’s file manager. In a way I can also compare the two.
The hosting provide that we use for our websites contacted us. Someone sent them an email saying:
Greetings, This is an official message from AppGate, on behalf of our Banco del Pacifico G.F. We need your cooperation in the removal of the content located in the site: bird.trom.tf/BancoPacificoEC The target site is the following URL(s): twitter.com/BancoPacificoEC We kindly ask you to shut down this content as soon as possible. We expect a prompt and affirmative response. Thanks for helping make the Internet safer. Sincerely, DTP Team - Appgate
As far as we understand BancoPacificoEC contacted them to complain that they noticed their "twitter" page accessed via our Nitter instance. But Nitter (bird.trom.tf) does not host any files, it is a proxy (twitter front-end). We have explained it all to the hosting provider. Hopefully they are smart enou
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The hosting provide that we use for our websites contacted us. Someone sent them an email saying:
Greetings, This is an official message from AppGate, on behalf of our Banco del Pacifico G.F. We need your cooperation in the removal of the content located in the site: bird.trom.tf/BancoPacificoEC The target site is the following URL(s): twitter.com/BancoPacificoEC We kindly ask you to shut down this content as soon as possible. We expect a prompt and affirmative response. Thanks for helping make the Internet safer. Sincerely, DTP Team - Appgate
As far as we understand BancoPacificoEC contacted them to complain that they noticed their "twitter" page accessed via our Nitter instance. But Nitter (bird.trom.tf) does not host any files, it is a proxy (twitter front-end). We have explained it all to the hosting provider. Hopefully they are smart enough to understand this. We are told if this is not solved in 12h they will shut down our trom.tf server.
These complaints come from humans that have no idea how the internet works or what it is. We will update you whenever we get a response from them. #tromlive
Actually we are accused of phishing haha simply because of that....having a Nitter instance. They think probably that our instance is a scam/phishing website impersonating their twitter page. That's my projection at least,
One of my arguments is that one of Elon Musk’s contributions to transportation over the past decade or so is really to try to stifle alternatives, things that would try to get people out of cars. Because he is this automaker, he has this desire for people to take cars instead of taking transit.
Is anyone surprised that Musk's incentive is to sell more cars? The same situation, over and over again, for centuries now. "business" humans trying to trade their shit, one way or another, by all means.
Read the entire interview here, quite telling and not surprising.
WebTigerJython is a student friendly programming environment for the Python programming language. The learning environment is designed especially for school lessons with the textbook “Einfach Informatik: Programmieren 7-9” from Juraj Hromkovič and Tobias Kohn published by Klett & Balmer.
WebTigerJython is a student friendly programming environment for the Python programming language. The learning environment is designed especially for school lessons with the textbook “Einfach Informatik: Programmieren 7-9” from Juraj Hromkovič and To…
Here's another example of how people are entirely confused about what is free and what is not, and why our trade-free approach makes so much sense.
We have added this peer to peer file sharing app to TROMjaro's Library: SoulSeek. This app is great. It allows you to connect with others directly, and share files with them. No server involved. We wanted to share our VideoNeat library on the network. However if you look closely they limit your experience. And if you donate currency to them you get this:
While they call themselves entirely free:
So, it is free, but you have to pay to unlock certain features....makes so much sense indeed!
Actually they call those trades, donations. And the word and concept of "
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Here's another example of how people are entirely confused about what is free and what is not, and why our trade-free approach makes so much sense.
We have added this peer to peer file sharing app to TROMjaro's Library: SoulSeek. This app is great. It allows you to connect with others directly, and share files with them. No server involved. We wanted to share our VideoNeat library on the network. However if you look closely they limit your experience. And if you donate currency to them you get this:
While they call themselves entirely free:
So, it is free, but you have to pay to unlock certain features....makes so much sense indeed!
Actually they call those trades, donations. And the word and concept of "donation" got ruined alongside that of "free". Donations should be voluntary and not used for the purpose of trade. If you "donate" currency to me in return for some features, then that is a trade. You are buying from me. As simple as that.
Therefore our concept of trade free is so simple and destroys all of these nonsensicalities: What Am I Trading? Ask that. And if you do, then you realize that you need to trade currency for Soulseek to give you more features. Therefore this app is not trade-free.
The reason it was added to our TROMjaro library is that either we could not detect this trade since they are charlatan enough to hide them well, or it was not present when the app was added. Needless to say it was immediately removed.
For one, do not call donations something that you trade. Can I get those "perks" without giving something to those people? No. So this is a trade not a donation. It is clearly stated on their website. As you can see in that image.
Second, they do provide benefits for the software. Permanent username, removal of a possible "annoyance" (donate button), and you get first in line for downloads. These are the things they are selling.
If they would accept donations, then they should not give anything in return for that. Else this is not a donation, it is purchasing. Regardless of what they think of it.
No because we are talking about goods and services being trade-free or not. Saying "thank you" is different from providing features that are intentionally restricted for those who do not "donate".
If the SoulSeek people would send "thank yous" and tshirts or whatever to their donors, then maybe we could consider SoulSeek (the software) as trade free since you get whatever everyone gets, regardless if you "donate" to them or not, in terms of that software. But they clearly restrict some features of the software itself, unless you give them currency, and only then they will "unlock" these features.
Interesting..... I thought giving a T-shirt for donations would be considered a trade, but I guess if you only look at the software itself then you can say the software is trade-free while the T-shirt is not 🤔 @utopify_org
Yes, I'm interested to see what @tio has to say about that.
According to me, if you give T-shirts for donations then its definitely a trade and not really a "donation". But the trade-free label is usually applied to goods/services..... So if someone provides a trade-free software that stays the same for ones who donate and those who don't, but for the people who donate they give a T-shirt which has nothing to do with the software itself, then how do we look at it? 🤔 @trom
If the SoulSeek people would send "thank yous" and tshirts or whatever to their donors, then maybe we could consider SoulSeek (the software) as trade free since you get whatever everyone gets, regardless if you "donate" to them or not, in terms of that software.
I didn't say that would make the software trade-free but that we could consider it as such. These are "edge" cases and as explained in the main TROM book we should not waste too much time on these because if you put under the microscope any idea/ideal it won't make as much sense.
That being said: if you make a video player that is trade-free, so anyone can enjoy it in any regards and do whatever they want with it without trading for that, but you also say that if anyone donates money to the project, they will get a tshirt back - the player itself is still trade-free since everyone gets access to the same player without trading anything for it. The incentive for donations is a separa
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If the SoulSeek people would send "thank yous" and tshirts or whatever to their donors, then maybe we could consider SoulSeek (the software) as trade free since you get whatever everyone gets, regardless if you "donate" to them or not, in terms of that software.
I didn't say that would make the software trade-free but that we could consider it as such. These are "edge" cases and as explained in the main TROM book we should not waste too much time on these because if you put under the microscope any idea/ideal it won't make as much sense.
That being said: if you make a video player that is trade-free, so anyone can enjoy it in any regards and do whatever they want with it without trading for that, but you also say that if anyone donates money to the project, they will get a tshirt back - the player itself is still trade-free since everyone gets access to the same player without trading anything for it. The incentive for donations is a separate thing in my view. It can be an interesting discussion however never forget that such edge cases are not that important, what we try to focus on are the more obvious trades and their negative impact, from software that pretends to be free yet they collect your data, to food that can only be accessible if you trade your currency, and so forth.
Yes, I remember reading about it in "The origin of most problems" book. We should be focusing on macro trades, instead of micro trades which are these edge cases. @tio @utopify_org
Yeah even the example in this post gets near to the edge case, however it is also clear that they limit the functionality of the software itself if you do not trade currency to them. So the software itself is not entirely trade-free.
Okay, so if you're really interested in this trade-free movement and want to learn more about it, then I recommend you read the book "The origin of most problems" from tromsite.com/books
That book specifically deals with this idea and its definition, it'll make you understand the different types of trades there are and how to spot these hidden trades. It also goes a little beyond the trade free concept, with things like VADOSE. You'll definitely learn a lot from it. @trom @tio
And keep in mind that its okay to not have a crystal clear definition of what's trade-free and what's not. The truth is that if you put the microscope on any word then it'll look blurry. Scientists are still confused whether viruses are a living thing or not, so we're still not able to define what life is, even though its such a trivial thing. So if you take any word out of context, then it'll start getting confusing. BTW, there is also a book written about language 🙂 @trom @tio
Yes, reading that book will make you understand things better. TROM is actually more like a mindset that you acquire, that's how I feel after closely following this project for the past year or so. And if you really get into it then you'll never stop learning new things, there's always new documentaries coming up on videoneat.com, new #Tromcasts and discussions, etc. You can even call this an educational project if you want 😉 @trom @tio
> Okay, the t-shirt for donors is trade-free, because the main product is the software, which should be free for everyone.
I think it'll be more clear if you look at the T-shirt and software as two separate things, one here is trade-free (software which is the same for all), the other one is not trade-free (T-shirt which only donors get).
But that being said, I think this is an edge case where the line becomes a bit blurry. Like asking if a hyena is a cat or a dog 😁
I really want to know in detail were the line is, because how should I understand something, if there isn't even a detailed definition?
As @Rokosun said we go into more detail in the Origin of Most Problems book. Now, the trade-free idea is an "experimental" one, and we label it as such in the book too, where we started it. To define what is trade and what is quite easy in general, but it can become confusing when you go into these edge cases. But it is fine. Everything is like that. The Open source idea is easy to understand, unless you go into the microscopic world of it and realize it may not be as coherent anymore.
So I think we can push it as far as to the example from this post. But what we care mostly about are those macro trades that we describe in the book.
Great to ask these questions @maxmoon :) I go with the recommendation to read the book which has a lot of examples to clarify that. Maybe a short and simple example is wikipedia. If wikipedia would allow me to access it only if I give some money, then wikipedia would not be trade-free. If wikipedia allows me to access it (as trade-free), but if I donate to them I get a t-shirt and otherwise I don't get a t-shirt, then the access to Wikipedia is still trade-free, but the t-shirt is not (since I have to give money to them).
In todays world unfortunately, people/organizations are forced to trade so the main goal is to trade less and create more trade-free chains that support each other. Example: There's an organization called "Foodsharing" in germany and while someone could save food from there, he/she could volunteer and code some software that he/she offers as trade-free for others.
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Great to ask these questions @maxmoon :) I go with the recommendation to read the book which has a lot of examples to clarify that. Maybe a short and simple example is wikipedia. If wikipedia would allow me to access it only if I give some money, then wikipedia would not be trade-free. If wikipedia allows me to access it (as trade-free), but if I donate to them I get a t-shirt and otherwise I don't get a t-shirt, then the access to Wikipedia is still trade-free, but the t-shirt is not (since I have to give money to them).
In todays world unfortunately, people/organizations are forced to trade so the main goal is to trade less and create more trade-free chains that support each other. Example: There's an organization called "Foodsharing" in germany and while someone could save food from there, he/she could volunteer and code some software that he/she offers as trade-free for others.
We're even showcasing some of the many trade-free goods/services that exist in todays world in a directory: directory.trade-free.org But the main focus is on explaining why trade is the source of most problems.
A huge and massive thank you again to @Roma for the huge 500 Euros donation to TROM. Amazing help hard to believe. We are working furiously on TROM II and we keep all of our 30+ trade-free projects alive and relevant. Any donation prolongs our work. We do not buy fancy shit, unnecessary things, or anything except food to support us, and pay the bills.
The usual Manjaro updates, plus: Changing/improving the icons We are using the same icons but instead of using the zafiro-icon-theme-git we are using the zafiro-icon-theme. You can install it from here.
maxmoon 🌱
in reply to TROM • • •So your solution is to give every person half of a million dollar to stop crime?
It wouldn't work! But that's how a super inflation works and criminal cases would go up. It would just put gas in a fire.
TROM
in reply to maxmoon 🌱 • •Rokosun
in reply to TROM • • •@tio I do feel like maybe some of these memes could be mistaken without the context behind it. When someone's reading the whole book then its clear what the point its trying to make, but without that context I can see how it can be confusing for people like @utopify_org
@TROM@www.social.tromsite.com
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Rokosun likes this.
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •@trom@social.trom.tf @TROM@www.social.tromsite.com @utopify_org
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Rokosun likes this.
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •@trom@social.trom.tf @TROM@www.social.tromsite.com
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Rokosun likes this.
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •I'm not talking specifically about this image, but still this image was confusing for @utopify_org and that's why they asked that question. So there's still some ambiguity for people who don't know the context, which I think is most people.
This is how they saw it:
> So your solution is to give every person half of a million dollar to stop crime?
It wouldn't work! But that's how a super inflation works and criminal cases would go up. It would just put gas in a fire.
@trom@social.trom.tf @TROM@www.social.tromsite.com
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Rokosun likes this.
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •I don't know, I wasn't talking about this post in particular but I wouldn't be surprised if more people thought like @utopify_org did, I don't think its a wild interpretation. Because we are already familiar with the context so our brain may not go into such conclusions, but for others this may not be the case. Comments like this indicate that people can get the wrong idea, we shouldn't ignore it.
@trom@social.trom.tf @TROM@www.social.tromsite.com
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Rokosun likes this.
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •@trom@social.trom.tf @TROM@www.social.tromsite.com @utopify_org
TROM
in reply to maxmoon 🌱 • •Airton
in reply to TROM • •TROM likes this.
TROM
Unknown parent • •TROM
Unknown parent • •maxmoon 🌱 likes this.
TROM
Unknown parent • •Humans should be taken care of from the get-go. Not from this or that age.
The first part is a story, of about 100 pages long, after that we get into the "facts" part of it. And the book is not about the solutions as it is about the problem. It is a book that argue this is the most important aspect: to understand what the problem is.
Read the book not a bit of it, in order to judge it please.
maxmoon 🌱 likes this.
Tio
Unknown parent • •I lived for 3 decades now and I've come across such short messages all the time. I was never as confused. But ok, at least you can ask and we can reply. So that's fine. I do not see how the message from this image is confusing. It is a question....if a man is arrested so many times for theft and it costs the tribe so much money to deal with him, would he still steal if they were to give the money to him?
Is similar to: most people do drugs because they are unhappy and poor, yet USA invests a lot of money in criminalizing the drugs. Would these people still do drugs if the USA would pour those money in social programs and help these people?
These do not need much context.....they are quite obvious I'd say.
Rokosun likes this.
Rokosun
Unknown parent • • •I think its actually more worrying when we don't get a response, you at least commented on it so we were able to clear the confusion here, but what if it doesn't get cleared? That's a bigger issue. If someone misinterprets it then:
1. They may think TROM is saying unreasonable things or whatever and leave the project.
2. They can get the wrong message and keep believing it as true.
These are both problems that can be caused by unclear communication.
@tio @trom@social.trom.tf @TROM@www.social.tromsite.com
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Rokosun likes this.
Tio
Unknown parent • •Rokosun likes this.
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •The thing is, I always expect the average person to get confused very easily, lol
@trom@social.trom.tf @TROM@www.social.tromsite.com @utopify_org
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •Simply put, Tio's point was to use that 1 million dollar for humanitarian projects and such, to actually help people.
> I would even say rich people are getting bored really fast and to "feel alive" they have to do something illegal (and it will be much bigger).
You may feel like that but I don't think this is true, there's a lot of other better ways to "feel alive" than doing illegal things. Committing crimes is not fun like they show in some movies, lol.
@trom@social.trom.tf @TROM@www.social.tromsite.com @utopify_org
Tio
Unknown parent • •I gave you a random and invented example to bring home the point about misinterpreting small bits of text. And you got that one right but not the original post.
Happiness Index? I wonder what is that about.
There are lots of statistic sand documentaries about drugs and who or why they consume. videoneat.com/?s=drugs here - many poor people and homeless ones, end up drug addicts simply because of the harsh life they have to endure. The drug use in those that are not poor, is also related to their unhappy life, but of course also influenced by all sort of media that they consume, and by those who sell the drugs.
Rokosun likes this.
Tio
in reply to Tio • •Mexico is bordering the biggest market in the world, USA. Of course they are making a business out of it.
Also en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Pl…
Rokosun likes this.
Rokosun
Unknown parent • • •> Your theory is not true about why most people are doing drugs and you build up on it to create another open question.
Hold on, the image in the post was talking about theft which is obviously a result of poverty. I'm not saying all thiefs are poor, but most are, and the rest of them are also a direct result of this unfair trade system where people with more money are treated better than others, so people do all kinds of scams to make money.
@tio @trom@social.trom.tf @TROM@www.social.tromsite.com
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Rokosun likes this.
Tio
Unknown parent • •I am well aware of the example in Portugal and we probably give that example in the book from where this quote is. Actually I should have linked to it sooner tromsite.com/books/#flipbook-d… - if not is in another one.
I do not make "weird" points at all, all of our books are factual and sourced so much they are bleeding. Yes we use some stories at times, that are fictional, to add up to the point we try to make. But this is rare.
Rokosun likes this.
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •@trom@social.trom.tf @TROM@www.social.tromsite.com @utopify_org
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •@trom@social.trom.tf @TROM@www.social.tromsite.com @utopify_org
Rokosun
Unknown parent • • •@tio @trom@social.trom.tf @TROM@www.social.tromsite.com